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An observation I made pertaining to evolution and evolution deniers. I at one point spent some time debating them, but pretty much gave it up as a lost cause. Not that they are stupid, some are quite smart, but they use the fine brain that God gave them (joke) to defend their preselected belief with confirmation bias, motivated reasoning, straw man arguments, and a whole panopoly of false arguments to convince themselves they are right. It was often funny how they would even completely not understand how evolution worked, or bring up problems with evolution that had long been solved. Like the evolution of the eye, even Darwin was stumped by that one, what good is half an eye? I'm sure many of you have been there, done that. And retreated into this oasis of sanity because if you heard "It's just a theory!" one more time you were likely to get stabby. I digress. There is however one huge unsolved mystery about evolution that science has yet to solve. A problem so ugly that even discussion of it was discouraged among scientists for nearly a century. And that's the evolution of language. There are a lot of hypotheses, none very satisfying. Worse, the problem of deception should have selected against language evolving in the first place. How do you know if someone is telling the truth? You don't, so the best way to protect yourself against lies is not to believe anything. So no language. While granted the fact that we are speaking would indicate that language did evolve somehow, but that hardly explains how it evolved. So you'd think this would be a big arrow in the evolution denier's quiver, yet never once heard one of them bring it up. Shows how little any of them have actually studied the theory I suppose.

Druvius 8 Dec 31
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New word "stabby",I love it!????????

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There was a tribe in South America mentioned by Dr. Savage that seemed to develop completely isolated: social strata; language; civil actions. Language seemed to have been secondary.

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how do you know other species do not have language? I think they may and we do not understand them yet but I have not made a study of this

I've done a lot of reading on the topic and try to keep current. While there are been a few fringe researchers making claims about signing apes and the like, none of them have passed muster when seriously tested for the ability to string words into meaningful sentences. They may be able to learn what thousands of words/symbols mean, and they may be able to combine them in meaningful ways depending on context, but that's not language. Like the "man bites dog" "dog bites" man example. Chimps will mirror a child's grasp of language right up to and including the meaning of hundreds of words. But very quickly the human child will quickly start combining the words into longer and more sophisticated sentences. And pretty soon they are talking. No animal has been able to do this, and we still don't know why it is that humans can do this and nothing else can.

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"So you'd think this would be a big arrow in the evolution denier's quiver, yet never once heard one of them bring it up."

Though your argument is different, there is some similarity between your concern about the evolution of language and Alvin Plantinga's Evolutionary Argument Against Naturalism, which a some Christians DO try to use often.

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"Worse, the problem of deception should have selected against language evolving in the first place. How do you know if someone is telling the truth? You don't, so the best way to protect yourself against lies is not to believe anything. So no language."

This is an interesting concern, I can't say I've quite heard this one before, so sincere cudos on originality.

Let me change your basic argument to a different but similar context. 'The problem of debilitating viruses should have selected against the internet evolving in the first place. How do you know if the information you're getting is not a virus? You don't, so the best way to protect yourself against viruses is not to connect with any other computers. So no internet.'

In both cases, what is being said is that one common failure mode in a means of information transmission should be strong enough for that form of transmission to not work at all.

But as far as I can tell, the flaw lies here: "How do you know if someone is telling the truth? You don't". This is where the process of empiricism comes in, and always has.

If someone tells you while you're sitting in a tent that it is sunny outside, but you walk outside for yourself and it is completely overcast, then you DO know whether they've told you the truth or not. This ability to double check/do things over for yourself—while we don't have the time to apply it to everything—can give us power over other people's words. Other people know that too, so this is one incentive (among several others—including survival) for them to tell the truth.

This is like with my virus analogy. 'How do you know if the information you're getting is not a virus? You don't'. Well, we can learn about common properties of their transmission (to avoid them) and behavior (to sense when an infection is beginning) and we can sand-box them (to confirm that they are definitely viruses). Hence these multiple defenses have also evolved for the internet to keep working.

Likewise, we evolved a number of defenses against deception. From double checking to neuropathways that behave differently depending on whether we are lying or telling the truth—giving others the ability to sometimes intuit when another person is making a statement in a strange way; a red flag for a lie.

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I would ask you to consider that evolving into a more efficient lifeform on this planet maybe a physical change in form while language is a means of communication. Many species other than ours communicates with each other for the common good. I would offer that when our brains increased in size so did our vocabulary.

Dude, I didn't make this up. Yes, some animals have evolved very sophisticated means of communication. Only humans have language, the ability to tell the diffetence between "man bites dog" and "dog bites man." How humans evolved this ability is still a mystery.

I agree, we know that elephants send a low level audio that travels miles through the soil. Other elephants hear of feel this. We , as humans , have created artificial night vision which soon will evolve into human genetic night vision. We now have created cochlear implants enabling the deaf the hear. We are at this very time evolving .

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