Agnostic.com

8 4

LINK ‘If England gets beaten, so will she’ – the link between World Cup and violence explained

Sorry for posting this but in the current gender equality conversation this needs to be addressed.

Lukian 8 July 11
Share

Enjoy being online again!

Welcome to the community of good people who base their values on evidence and appreciate civil discourse - the social network you will enjoy.

Create your free account

8 comments

Feel free to reply to any comment by clicking the "Reply" button.

1

I knew about the football hooligans, but I had no idea about the increased rate of spousal abuse. The explanations given in the article make sense given what I do know. It is a shame that stoicism and responsibility are not a bigger part of the modern view of masculinity. Running around causing chaos or hurting those you care about are not what a proper alpha male would do: a healthy sense of masculinity is one that brings order to chaos and is disciplined. I’m not a fan of the term toxic masculinity, but I’d say in this case it definitely does apply.

You'd think that humans would have a better instinct for picking the true alphas males out of the pack. Ostricizing the loud, bloviating, obnoxious beta, gamma and delta males who are desperately attempting to masquerade as alphas doesn't seem to be something we're very good at anymore.

In the animal kingdom, the beta, gamma and deltas who attempt to display power through uncontrolled agression and loud, obnoxious behavior are put back in their place quickly or they are unceremoniously removed from the group by any means neccessary. Conversely, humans have been known to put these false alphas in to positions of great power.

Human females, whom one would think would possess an extra keen sense towards separating true alpha males from the pack, seem to be the most susceptible. How often does one see a woman with a beta, gamma or delta male that uses violence and other aggressive behaviors in an attempt to mask their lack of ability to demonstrate true leadership.

Or, take a look at the last presidential election results and see how many women voted for a false alpha male like Donald Trump.

@webbew1 Well I think for the most part people in general do a good job in pairing up with people who aren’t abusive even if they aren’t a good match for a romantic relationship. Sometimes abusers can be clever enough to lure unsuspecting victims into their trap with a false sense of comfort. It doesn’t take a genius to figure out how to manipulate people though some are more resistant to this type of deception than others. It is unfortunate though.

@webbew1 what are these alpha beta gamma males? Is this scientific sounding bullshit again? Or is it some new form of radiation emitted by males? ?

@Spongebob

An alpha is just what it sounds like.

An alpha is individual with natural leadership skills who maintains control of themselves and their environment at all times. An alpha is individual who is capable of motivating and organizing large groups of people to work towards a positive outcome.

Prime examples of alphas: Joan of Arc, Bill Belicheck, Angela Merkel, Barack Obama, Cleopatra, Winston Churchill, Indira Ghandi, Queen Victoria, Steve Jobs.....

Prime examples of betas: Napolean Bonaparte, Donald Trump, Ferdinand Marcos, Benito Mussolini..... And any other wanna be who uses fear and division to maintain power.

The rest of us lowly souls are just gammas and deltas.

@webbew1 could you please provide a reference? How did you come up with this list? Indira Gandhi is considered to be a dictator by a lot of people in India. Don't know much about Churchill, but would he be great with out the world war? He was a racist who justified British inaction during famines in India, claiming it to be natural selection or something like that. His record in first world War is not great either. I presume other names in your list could similarly be disputed. Depending on your own perceptions you could call anyone an alpha beta whatever.
My point is that human societies are much more complicated than small wolf packs from where the idea of an alpha male comes.

@Spongebob I would contend that an alpha is one who embodies desirable male traits such as self-discipline, maintaining order, stoic, wise, responsible, etc. these are by no means unique to men nor an exhaustive list, but I brought it up in the context of a male ideal because modern notions of masculinity seem to lack at least some of these qualities and opt instead for rabid unhinged chaos. At least it seems to be the case when one reads about football hooligans who beat their spouse or partner because their team lost.

@Wavefunction

^^^^^

What he said. Couldn't have stated it better myself.

@webbew1 Yes but what Spongebob said was that your list was entirely subjective. No one person is totally noble or totally dominant of all groups. A CEO might be the alpha at work but struggle in social situations because he can't make small talk. The alpha captain of a football team might be quite shy at work. Put Barak Obama in a Thai prison and not understanding the language and culture he would find himself 'omega' (if that is a category). I think we should confine the terms 'alpha' 'beta' etc to the lesser primate kingdom or wolf packs as mentioned above. Humans are far more complex.

1

Any woman who gets involved with some guy who beats her up over something as inconsequential as a football match needs to seriously reassess the type of men she's choosing to become involved with. She either needs to realize that these types of relationships are exactly what she wishes to manifest in her life and live with the results of the choices she has made, or she needs to start picking better quality men.

@Athena

A good rule of thumb to go by: Watch how they behave around others. Most abusers and manipulators will be nice to you until you are hooked in to the relationship through kids or finances for obvious reasons. He has no such obligations to others, and his true colors will be more likely to show through early on.

If he's cruel to the waiter, run in the other direction as fast as you can.

@Athena like this phrase: Let's just say I've never met a jar I couldn't open myself.
I think that is a fair assessment of the dynamics in this type of relationship.

1

American football season experiences similar issues.

no doubt

1

Its horrible.

Amisja Level 8 July 12, 2018
1

Never cared for the sport, never beaten a woman... proud of not giving a flying fuck about the only real football on earth. But those into it... enjoy. Just not my religion.

2

Quite often this happens over and over again. The guy takes his feeling of being let down by his team out on his partner. I suppose it is some form of transferral rage. But we must try to get these women to get out and stay out from these abusuve relationships because the next time his team loses could be the time she loses her life.

2

Ladies, get out that cast iron frying pan & Use it on these dickwads!

1

Drunken football hooligans seem tobe the UK's primary export. And given their proclivity to riot even when they win, this article is not surprising,just sad. Since media outlets have shown women getting as violent and drunk as their male counterparts,I wonder if there is an uptick of abused males as well. Or perhaps the drunk women tend to be with the drunk males and they just pound on each other? And this is not whataboutism, guys beating on women are scum.

Write Comment
You can include a link to this post in your posts and comments by including the text q:128769
Agnostic does not evaluate or guarantee the accuracy of any content. Read full disclaimer.