IAW, I was trying to say (without words) that if one day the NO existence of god is proven the believers will refuse to accept the evidence.

Due to the existence of Flat Earthers im starting to wonder if anything can be proven without a reasonable doubt, there will always bee those who say its blue when its red.

@DUCHESSA I'm a Christian, but if God were scientifically and incontrovrtably proven to not exist, I would have to change my thinking, obviously; however, I'd still live my life trying to practice the teachings of the10 Commandments 3-8, and the teachings of Christ regarding love, mercy, forgiveness, and NOT JUDGING OTHERS different from me. I wouldn't throw the baby out with the bathwater. There are many that believe Jesus was just a revolutionary rabbi with some good advice on life. I could live with that. I'm a lover, not a fighter, lol!

@Lewellyn33 Besides the fact that is obvious that you reason...are you aware the10 Commandments were not "" invented"" but appropriated by the Christian? They also stole many Pagan celebrations.

@DUCHESSA Oh yes! They were in the Ugaretic texts of the Syrians and Sumerians hundreds of years before Moses brought them down from Sinai. Many of Jesus' teachings are direct quotes from Aristotle and Socrates! I have notes somewhere that I traced which scriptures were first spoken by which Greek philosopher; there were several listed, but I can't remember where I put them for the life of me!

Much of the stories in the Bible were in earlier texts of earlier pagan religions, some archaeologists date back 500-1000 years before the Dead Sea Scrolls There are some scriptures very similar to the Phoenitians.

In Ugarit, ancient Syria and in the Caananite religion, Baal was only outranked by El, the chief God. But Baal ran all El's affairs and was called "king of the the gods" and "most high" in Ugaretic texts. Yet, in the Bible, Baal is the evil god. He was also called "prince, lord of the underworld" (zbl ba'al 'arts) in Ugaretic text. He becomes Baal Zebul, later Baal Zebub, associated with Satan in Jewish literature. Where most scholars agree there is association, they disagree on the precise etymological development and conceptual relationships between Baal ("lord and master" in Ugaretic and Hebrew) and Baal Zebub.

There is still uncertainty whether or not Baal had his own separate divine council like El, (and later, Yahweh had) serving as El's vice-regent.At any rate, El had an underling god named Yahweh, also known as El Shaddai. Supposedly, El divided up the kingdoms of the world (the world as they knew, not the entire globe) to minor gods to rule for him. Yahweh was assigned to the areas of Israel and Palestine today, along with Mesopotamia, a pagan land.

Abraham was a Mesopotamian, so he was most likely from a pagan family. When he was visited by Yahweh and told he'd be the father of many nations, Yahweh identified himself not as Yahweh, but El Shaddai. Some scholars believe Yahweh was a son of El, some believe they are the same god - even though in Psalm 82, Yahweh and El are clearly separate gods. Studying this is like going down a rabbit hole, or studying a family :thth but it has fascinated me for years. So, sorry for the rant!

@OrbitalResonance Yes! Flat earthers - now those people I just don't understand! I thought they were joking, at first!

Very interesting point of view. I once thought the same and heard from a few others that scenerio . What if there is a being that wed identify as " god " but hes a being that has yet to be dicovered ? And where both wrong ? And we BOTH get judged harshly .? This sir is exackly why i joined this sight to hear other ideas and have interesting convos .

The older I get the more I honestly feel that IF... huge IF there, but IF there is a god at all, there has to be several. There is just too much that conflicts and doesn't seem to quite make sense for there only to be one.

Historically for far longer than not it was believe there were many. Even in Christianity there was the idea of, though there are many, only one should be worshipped. It seems only the last few hundred years that the idea developed that there really is only one and it has become common to think all the others are false. What brought that idea to me was the commandment not to hold any other deity before him. Ok... if there were no others, then why bother mentioning them at all? When they are mentioned then why make a commandment that would make them lesser gods or at least insist they not be held as important?

Either way, to me science has ways of explaining things or provides methods of finding evidence where holy books tend to lay down the law without proof. Anyone who remembers their parents saying "because I said so" has to remember how far that went.

Ah, Pascal's Wager, the most misunderstood wager in the history of gambling.
Some people believe that Pascal wrote this as a CYA with the Catholic Church because of his controversial writings that led some to question his faith. However, I like to think that Pascal was playing with us, tongue-in-cheek, and having a bit of fun. Note that this is not a theological argument, at all, but rather a "theological na-na-na-na-na!" as in "I'm going to heaven and you're going to hell, na-na-na-na-na!" Pascal, being a lifelong Catholic, knew very well that the primary cardinal sin was Pride, such as the Pride of Satan. Such arrogant schadenfreude would never be practiced by true Christians, and to do so would not get you into heaven...but into hell!

Very interesting

Exacly . I agree 100 % . If he does exist he set us up for failure

Very erudite reasoning you have there, Charles. I don't believe it, but simultaneously I can't prove my ideas are correct; but you've certainly given me something to think about! Got any furture writings on this?

When I have reasoned with people about this point, Charles, I have gotten the standard "it's God's will." That's the end of the discussion.

@poetdi56 If you or I were to walk past a child lying in a gutter or ignore a grievously injured person because we were "too busy" to stop we would be labeled as horrible people, cruel and heartless. If the Christian god does this, somehow it's perfectly fine because somehow these people were meant to suffer.

I suppose that makes sense to Christians but it doesn't work for me. Allowing pain and suffering to happen when you could EASILY stop it is characteristic of someone who is pitiless and immoral at best and utterly reprehensible and evil at worst. "It's God's will" is a pathetic and ignorant excuse for people who are unwilling to think for themselves.

Greek philosopher Epicurus stated...

Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?

@germangirl90439 I doubt I'd need it, but I may need help burying the body. Who can say what will happen after you kill a god? Maybe he'll just disappear in a poof of logic?

@germangirl90439 Douglas Adams, Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy is to be credited for that.

Especially loved your last paragraph, and totally in sympathy with the rest of your statement having had much the same experience.

I have come to disbelieve in the Puppetmaster; when I did, it was because I was TAUGHT each Sunday to "rely in God for everything and thank him for everything".

Then, I began to ask: If some do that, then what is the difference from that and BLAMING God for everything?

Both concepts encourage us to avoid accountability for our actions, laziness, and lack of ambition; to discourage us from Independant decision-making and following others blindly without critical thinking of our own. Hey, that sure worked for the Catholic church until the Age of Enlightment!

I can see your point.

Ya this whole god thang just makes zero semse to me

Ah, the great 'mystery'

God gave us brains for a reason. If not, then God made a mistake. If God made a mistake, then he is not God.

Lol. Never thought of it that way

Lol!

Excellent!
LOL

Lol ohhh I’ve done that .... and the butt hurt is terribly amusing

@HeidiBC It usually is.

Im added this defense to my arsenal lol

only by African sparrow

only by African sparrow

@Shep
What would an African swallow be doing migrating with a coconut over England?

Very thoughtful: If I am to be punished for questioning . . .

@Adam_Gaha Exactly, if one is to be punished for questioning what's the point of free will?

If we have no free will, then what's the point of church if our destinies here and thereafter are already known, and set.

If we do have free will then why should my faith be guided by anyone apart from myself?

When a theist quotes from their book, well that's only one interpretation of things. What if they're wrong?

I always like to play with the idea that all religions are just a fragment of the puzzle, and that our constant strife against one another is why everyone is wrong.

Honestly the church has done more to harm my belief in God(s) than any bit of science ever did.

@BeardedWonder Fragments of a puzzle: [nods]

Its going to be 'yuge'

Haha check out laveyan satanism . I think yoid find itd match up with your beliefs lol.

I'm everyone's BBF, technically... And home is rather cozy.

Agreed. It's the same argument, distilled, that Chris Hitchens made, and it holds out marvelously.

That is a perfect answer!!

Ahhh but us women can’t meet ya in the great hall...

I did not know that...can I change my mind....or better yet sneak out of the great hall with you?@HeidiBC

Ya i really wish theyd just leave people alone the issue with that however is they truly believe they are saving people and themselfs because theyre doing good deeds an they will be rewarded . So they tend to thank thats exackly what there intended to do

@DavidDeLa89 That would take teaching everyone the basics in science and psychology from an early age with studies and evidence more fully explained as people age. It wouldn't hurt to learn how religions develop from an early age as well. Unfortunately most churches have a lot of wealth and control built into the system and will fight tooth and nail to keep such studies out of school and out of the public for as long as they possibly can.

@france7 There is absolutely no credible evidence that you exist. So why would I have assumed you exist and believed in you?

Is she hot

I tell my students that they know what is good and right within themselves, so they need to do what is good and right, because it is good and right.

Perhaps I can market a candy to Seekers: Good and Right. 《chuckles》

But that would be a misleading question, because the bible doesn’t have the integrity of a real book, written by a single author or even group of authors working together. It’s an ANTHOLOGY, collecting the myths, folk wisdom, tribal history and even poetry of different people over many centuries, hobbled together with little regard for consistency as we moderns would define it. Often the editing and inclusion of material had political implications. That’s why, if you look long enough, you are likely to find things that justify pretty much anything you want. It’s strength is that it captures an amazing breadth of human experience and thought.

@The-Krzyz You just proved my point

Its all about what we choose to believe, hopefully, by critical thinking. Some would say there is evidence, some say not.

At one time, people thought the sun and planets rotated around the earth; all disease was demonic (they had no concept of germs); an atomic bomb or atoms didn't exist in their world; and any child born so severely deformed to survive was evidence that it was a spawn of Satan due from the mother having sex with the devil.

My grandmother didn't believe man could never get to the moon because God would shoot them down before they could get there ("God will not be mocked" ). Then, when they succeeded, Satan had "outsmarted God". But if God is all-knowing.....well, you get my drift.

Lol ya i don't either

any - all

Thats what im saying

Lol

Ya ill meet u in the afterlife and well get all our supernatural entities amd try and over ride his ass lol