Agnostic.com

35 5

What's Jesus to you?

People can't seem to agree about this Jesus fellow. Tell me, just what is he???

  • 3 votes
  • 17 votes
  • 17 votes
  • 11 votes
  • 28 votes
silvereyes 8 Jan 19
Share

Enjoy being online again!

Welcome to the community of good people who base their values on evidence and appreciate civil discourse - the social network you will enjoy.

Create your free account

35 comments

Feel free to reply to any comment by clicking the "Reply" button.

6

I went with one big lie.

If he was doing all of this miraculous stuff, his name should have been in every damn book written at that time.
Only the bible guys got an exclusive on that story? Ok.

Me too.

Check out the timelines and people researched by Ralph Ellis.

@Issa Will do.

@Issa I looked into Ralph a bit and many of his theories are questionable with some reviewers claiming he's a conspiracy theorist. His books seem to me to fall somewhere between the show Ancient Aliens and Dan Brown's book The DaVinci Code.

One thing Paul, there is nothing wrong with Ancient Aliens which is firmly based upon historical records/accounts of the Sumerian civilization that many 'scholars' have validated. There is also nothing wrong with the DaVinci Code, that is strongly cemented within the Gnostic writings - which are valid and speak a lot about Jesus and his works and were rejected by Constantine at the council of Nicaea when he formulated the 'fake' and partial bible that you have obviously only read? As this website is not exclusively about 'scholarly' journal sources, I felt free to post and should be able to without it being disrespected. Also, you will not know the extensive detailed research that went into Ellis work until you actually read it. It is compelling, and I have been a Theologian, and studied this subject for a very long time. I am a psychologist too, and don't buy into just anything, but I am not on the side of disbelieving everything as an Atheist would either. The only problem that I have with Atheists is that they dismiss everything without giving any other research a chance without Atheist colored glasses of the attitude of needing to debunk everything off hand - which is a bit churlish in all honesty. Rise above it and read a new book - the Arthurian legends have validity as well as all of the historical references to people named Jesus in the 1st century. The legends of the person Jesus could have easily been HIDDEN in the Arthurian legends because at the time Rome was trying to destroy everything about any other valide 'leaders' of the day. By 4th century Constantine and the council of Nicea destroyed and hid very many of the writings which you say do not 'exist', because they killed countless people who were witness to any miracles. As a Yogi Master, Jesus had yogic powers, as I wrote in another post and there is much historical documentation to back that up too in India, and Tibet - IE healing, walking on water etc... You have to make a decision at some point in your life as to whether you will allow personal bias to eliminate any abilities you may have had to discover something new, or real - that is outside of your commitment to a total 'lack' of any belief. I responded to you respectfully, I did not consider the tone that you responded back to me as very respectful with your total dismissal of Ellis work because he may be a conspiracy theorist? You did not even read what I referenced before totally dismissing it. That was a very lazy and rude response. If you want others to listen to you then back up what you are saying that involved some real effort on your part, rather than dismissal just because....

@Issa If you think I disrespected you out of hand, that was not my intent. I apologize.

That said I'm not going to buy a series of books that I have no interest in reading. He should have won at least a Pulitzer by now if not a Nobel Prize for his findings.

What you call my atheist bias that I use to dismiss Ellis's work, I call a healthy, skeptical lack of faith.

1

He's based off the Egyptian god Horus.

Actually he's not - that's bad research you're referring to; the claim has been debunked. by historians.

@Hominid could you then send me the link to that? I would like to read that information.

Sure thing @SonderOpia! I was also taken in by the false history (...and so was the documentary "Zeitgeist". The source were two authors who write in the 1930s or so a book that misled lots of people. A good summary of the debunking is here: [ed5015.tripod.com]

@Hominid thank you for this information. I'm reading up on it and I'll take time to read up on it more. I should have studied it more before I posted it but thank you for catching that.

No problemo. Glad to help out! The Wikipedia link on the subject also explains how the theory was based on misleading research. It's not as in-depth as the first link, but still informative.

[en.wikipedia.org]

5

There’s a lot we don’t know and may never know. Rather than guess, I’d prefer to focus on what I know. He was the central character in a book that had arguably the most widespread and most long lived effect on the human population of any book ever written. The question becomes... why? What is it about human psychology that resonates so profoundly with this story, regardless of whether he was real or fiction?

skado Level 9 Jan 19, 2018

It's a complex question to which there is no simple answer, but I think educated speculation tells much. In my little corner of the world I put it up to two primary factors: 1) It was a control strategy by Constantine in the 3rd century to legitimize Christianity, and followed up by the church to be used as a control mechanism. 2) It plays heavily on our psychological archetypes of fear of death and authority.

And it's not just this story... look at Islam.

@Hominid The book "The Closing of the Western Mind", by Charles Freeman told of how Constantine was a Roman Caesar who saw the power shift of the empire heading East. He also saw how the different religions of the empire were destroying it. He sought, as did our founders, to make no religion the central one and all would be treated equally. He did adopt some Christian ideas but he also remained true to his pagan beliefs. The stuff put out about him and the "sign of the Cross" is Christian propaganda used to gain power for their tribe.

Yes, what is it about all religions? @VictoriaNotes

I’m sure that’s part of it. @VictoriaNotes

5

I think it's possible he was the Gandhi or MLK of his time. History just made him more.

That's the first time I've seen Gandhi spelled properly on this site!

@Jnei do you think @Admin will give extra points for correct spelling? Lol

@BeeHappy Maybe they should remove points for bad spelling and grammar.

@JackPedigo hahaha...

6

I tend to think Richard Carrier is right about Jesus. It seems very likely that it started as the concept of a celestial, sacrificial, messianic figure and the tale evolved by the time of the gospels to be a flesh-and-blood person. It wouldn't bother me if Jesus were a historical figure (and in many ways I'd prefer it, because we'd have a shot at learning a lot more about who he was and what he did), but historians seem to accept the effect of the stories (the gospels, the letters, etc.) and the proliferation of the religion as proof that Jesus existed. That seems very much like saying that the spread of Scientology through L. Ron Hubbard as prophet is proof of the existence of the overlord Xenu, or that the existence of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints as promoted by Joseph Smith is proof for the existence of Mormon and Moroni. Just because a story has influence doesn't mean the story itself is literally true. So, I suspect — but cannot confirm — that Jesus is merely a fictional figure that became the basis for a religion as the stories morphed and grew.

I agree. I think the bible has is possibly based on a very small bit of truth.

One of many @ the time who probably preach against the hard times and was combined into one myth.

Irony, of all the great writers of the time jesus was never mentioned by any of them which makes on wonder why.

0

I think that Jesus was a Bodhisattva who basically incarnated, became enlightened and chose to teach others how to become enlightened too. As a mystic and a Yogi (he lived in India with the masters of the day), he learned the sciences of healing and manipulating elements - which can be learned, and which he tried to teach. When he appeared to be 'empowering' people who were previously oppressed by Rome and the Jewish leaders they sought to get rid of him - as he was appearing to be a Messiah character.

I also believe that he could be placed historically at a previous or later date than our current history teaches and that he could have been the once and future king Arthur Pendragon. Some historical timelines have Jesus, Mary and the whole lot of them in Scotland fighting Rome, instead of Judea fighting Herod. (Google Isle of Sky). Ralph Ellis has many compelling arguments on the whose who in 100CE/AD placing Jesus as a Royal born Jewish leader in the line of King David whom the other Jewish leaders of the day and Rome (he fought taxation) wanted him gone, so he was killed.

I like to think of him as King Arthur with some very unique skills. Merlin, the famed magician could also have been the man/mystic Jesus as he had the powers to get others attentions. These stories and accounts, claimed by Ellis to be 'fictionalized' to hide Arthur teachings from the destruction of the Catholic Church fore fathers who would have wiped the Arthurian legends from the history books.''

Since the advent of the Sumerian cuneiform tablets have been revealing that there was a God (Anu) and two sons who fought (Enlil -Sky God, and Enki -Water Serpent God), the ideas of the legends of Thor, Loki and Odin come to mind... by overlaying the previous legends with different names.Then you find evidence of Hadad, Mithra, Baal, and other Storm 'Gods/gods' in the pantheon throughout Jewish history/Religious History. So, had Jesus been the 'son' of God, he could take the place of Thor/Enlil as he was witnessed to being able to calm the storms? There is so much and it goes so deeply that this study can keep one entertained for decades... This could all be a good fiction story of good and bad as a reference for life lessons, a religion to worship, but it can also be just a very interesting study.

Issa Level 5 Jan 19, 2018

So, to clarify - those who knew Jesus hid his history in the Arthurian legends, just like the spiritualists of the past hid all pertinent teachings inside of tarot cards to hide them from the church of Rome. If the church thought that the King Arthur legend was fiction, then they would allow the writings to survive on the public stage and for people to read them. If they had suspected that the Arthurian legends were 'propaganda' and 'spiritual porn' hiding Jesus, the real person, to cause people to question Rome/Catholic Church, then it would have remained hidden or wiped out, according to Ellis research.

Well, it may be that Jesus never existed - but Arthur did? The very name Arthur means Bear, which is how the King fought in battle, so we do not know his REAL name. That is the whole point, isn't it? The historical records are what they are, I cannot change them, only express what I have learned and studied that appears to be very valid and hard driven research that is based in history and the people who existed at the time. Sorry. I would prefer to believe that Jesus was just another version of King Arthur than the person whom the Catholic Church thought they could torture us with hell fire over. 😉

4

When I say OTHER, it is because to me Jesus most likely did not exist at all; so I was inclined to say one big lie or fictional zombie. However; there is a possibility that many embellished stories of many characters are responsible for the story of Jesus; not unlike Pecos Bill or Paul Bunyon 🙂 So the embellished answer also resonated with me...so I had to say other. Just because I have to admit I have not done the research necessary to have a definitive stance...just my feelings based on what I do know and have heard.

This is another issue that has been gone over several times. Historians have pretty much proven such a person did exist (see my comments here). Romans have many reliefs showing such a person leading some men. An important historian of the time (Josephus) added to the reality of the man.

2

A dude that fixes my kitchen cabinetry with his plethora of carpenter tools and skillz to pay the (holy) bills! 😉

Sadoi Level 7 Jan 19, 2018

You mean the handyman Jesus Garcia? He does good work!

@GareBear517 hahahah! yes! exactly! and around 6pm in the evening, he comes around with the tamale cart and the queso fresco corn on the cob and hot butter! He is most excellent! Good cabinets, better Tamales! Yum!

0

I don’t know why it just pasted the link and not the image. This is why my kids make fun of me and my outstanding use of technology

4

Jesus backwards (susej) sounds like sausage.
I don't know what to make of the character, 1%wise, 72% contradiction, 27% nutter that argued with a tree, 100% unbelievable.

Dav87 Level 6 Jan 19, 2018

As a fellow Brit, I'm sure you'll be aware of Gregg's the bakers' controversial Christmas ad campaign featuring a nativity scene in which Baby J was replaced with a sausage roll. Say "Lord Jesus" backwards... 🙂

1

The late Dave Allen sort of sums up my thoughts on the matter..

3

Oh yeah ....Jesus. He's the guy who ...uh...died for our sins, right ?

And did a zombie thing after that, and popped out of a cave, so kids could eat jelly beans ?

He was kinda cute - with a beard and long hair, and sandals.
Looked like a lot of my hippie friends !

0

A good Jewish eyngl with some modne ideas.

Jnei Level 8 Jan 19, 2018
2

He really hurt me... I'm sure he is the story of him. I imagine hes hurt a lot of people asking why.

3

Fictional character in a very old book of fiction.

2
0

According to the Bible, Jesus of Nazareth was a teacher. Was he the Messiah? Maybe, and what is messiah really mean? I don't think it means a divine supreme being. Someone of great character, maybe. A leader, maybe; just not an eternal, omniscient, omnipotent being.

1

I think he’s a historical figure that was used to create a bs religion.

0

Jesus was a Buddhist monk who also was a prince, he was crucified by the Romans but didn't die, then ran back to his home in India.

I thought it was hilarious.
0

It has been shown he was a historical figure. His true self and his movement has been embellished and greatly exaggerated for political purposes.

He was born a Jew, lived as a Jew and died as one. He never started a new religion.

2

He may have existed. Perhaps in the glorified evangelist, snake oil will heal you kind of way. I also believe mental illness existed. So was Jesus and his homies all a part of writer’s imagination, or perhaps it was real and events were exaggerated to set guidelines and manipulate behavior to a specific point of view? Could be. But I could be wrong.

1

We know from characters like Joel Olsteen that some people are fully ruthless enough to use the beliefs of their followers to gain power for themselves.

It looks like Jesus might have attempted to do the same, to gain power, wealth and influence. Unfortunately for him, the Romans were having none of it.

0

Human nature is ingrained, in times or great distress mythical figures rise to show the way. Stories of great become embellished and the legrend is born. EVER notice the story line is the same? The names and places change but it always to be lead out of darkness into the light. I hope my tone does not give the impression I'm mocking Jesus, I think it is important to give people hope and inspiration and that is what the stories of Jesus do. IMO

0

no smoke without fire. there is a hell of a lot of smoke, however.

0

Jebus wasn't a Zombie

Write Comment
You can include a link to this post in your posts and comments by including the text q:16565
Agnostic does not evaluate or guarantee the accuracy of any content. Read full disclaimer.