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Does ' pro-lifer' always identify a religious person?

Referring to a fetus as a child - saw it in a member post, raises the religious flag in my opinion.
As an atheist/agnostic do you use the scientific term 'fetus' and eschew terms such as 'unborn child'?

AmiSue 8 Jan 22
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39 comments

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1

Possibly not. I've seen plenty of anti-abortion protesters specifically separating themselves from any religious component of the debate. Perhaps it's just a trick...

4

My daughter is definitely not a religious person yet she is pro-life in that she chose to have 2 children when it would have been to her advantage not to have them. She does not vote with the evangelical pro-life movement however and supports a woman's right to choose.

Anti abortion/pro choice, that's my stand on that one.

I made a similar choice. I will vociferously defend a woman's right to choose BECAUSE I know the true costs of that choice.

0

Not necessarily but most often it is used by religious people. I never refer to a fetus as an unborn child as I think it is ridiculous until the fetus is at or near full term.

I also think the pro-life label is misleading as typically pro-life people are not supporters of life once a person is born. I think most pro-choice people support life more than the supposed pro-lifers. Things like prenatal care, healthcare, education, and so on.

1

It seems religion is too strongly associated with this controversy and perhaps as the novelty of the guy in sky thing becomes old and tired; their only perceived source of continued relevancy is to stir up a big old pot of social issues where their definition of "good and bad" aligns with their warped translation of an old, poorly translated book with omitted chapters. By the way - It's a fetus, an embryo or a zygote.

0

I've used the term child instead of fetus in the context that the parent(s) have decided that they want the child. It seems fitting given the intent.

4

I would say most Christians are pro-life and most pro-life people are Christians. However, I wouldn't say it necessarily means they are. A belief that life is precious and worth saving can be just as much an atheist belief, especially since we don't even believe there is anything more after death. My personal beliefs differ from that mindset but I can grasp the concept.

Oddly enough - in the US Christians who are 'pro life' are often 'pro death penalty' too. What gives?

0

I dunno, but I have always thought that vegans who swallow cum shouldn't consider themselves vegan.

3

I am pro choice-women's rights. I word use the term fetus.

2

I use fetus and believe VERY strongly in a woman's right to choose. I would not tell another human what to do with her life for a year. I'm not sure I have met anyone who is anti-abortion and not religious... Maybe I should get out more. It would be a curious conversation.

7

I use 'fetus'. I would never use the term 'unborn child'.
Although, I do not automatically consider anyone who claims to be pro-life to be religious.
I do, however, automatically consider anyone who claims to be pro-life to be a meddling pain in the ass.

You go girl!!!

0

I have meet pro-lifers who were atheist. I think there is a strong correlation but its not 1-to-1.

One person I knew who was not religious but a theist told me that in her mind it should only be used for psychological or physical help.

I am not saying what I think I am just reporting what I have heard.

1

I think of fetus as a medical term, I could be wrong. I guess being an atheist doesn't guarantee one has rational thinking capacity. I was cringing while reading that comment you allude to, the same as I would if reading a religious diatribe.

3

Yes. Without religion, a fetus is just a parasite living off its host until it is viable outside the womb. No one is arguing over tapeworm lives.

AxeElf, are you deliberately missing my point or do you really not understand I was making the point both tapeworms and fetus cannot exist outside their host. Outside of morality, which is dictated by religious dogma, no one would argue a parasite's life is more valuable than it's fully cognizant, functioning, human host. And yet when a pregnant woman is ill or injured, there is much debate and handwringing over whose life deserves saving. Unless its a case of the mother being too ill or wounded to likely survive, or has made HER express wishes known, I don't even see why this is a dilemma. To walk the pregnancy clock back farther, if a fetus cannot survive on its own, it is not life, it is life potentiate. Furthermore, irrespective of religious dogma and morality, what do you care what I do to MY body?!

@Eponymous well said.

0

A fetus, when it can differentiate itself as "I", and experience with its developing senses, is a human being. It is murder of an innocent human being. It is a choice sometimes made to save the life of the mother, and others to end the suffering of a horribly malformed fetus. Everything else is convenience...the convenience to kill.

0

I’m pro-life in a very generic sense (not in the political sense for which the term was popularized - I’m pro-choice in that regard) but I favor a life-affirming outlook over the cult of death attitude. But more to the point of your question… no, apparently not. I just encountered a person on this site who claims to be 100% certain there is no god and who also claims that fetuses have the same right to life that an adult human has.

skado Level 9 Jan 22, 2018
1

When I was much younger I was pro-life and atheist. Actually I was more conservative about a lot of things because I was a young mother and less educated.

0

I consider myself to be both an atheist and pro-life,

I think the connection between religion and pro-life primarily stems from the faulty moral reasoning brought on by theistic philosophy: the only justification required for a religious person is "God said so." I think it's reasonable to guess that the vast majority of pro-lifers are religious, so, with their philosophy based in theism, the pro-life movement will look arbitrary and manipulative.

As for myself I think that my stance on abortion has only been solidified since I left Catholicism.

Here is a summary of my beliefs on the issue:
It seems clear to me that the most valuable thing to any person is their life, as any right, benefit, or relief a person receives is useless if that person is dead. Therefore, the ultimate violation of an individual is to kill them, thus depriving them of every freedom in one move. I think it is arbitrary to dictate which persons are deserving of this protection, from the old to the newborn. And, as an extension, I don't see any non-arbitrary or substantial distinction between a child in the womb and a newborn. As the crippling majority of gametes, both male and female, never develop past being a gamete, I think it's fair to distinguish them as separate from an individual.

Maybe I am wrong, but I see myself as having approached the issue rationally.

And from the safe standpoint of never having to be in a situation where you have to choose between a fetus' "life" and YOUR future or health.

There are profound consequences of pregnancy,childbirth and child rearing. The maternal mortality rates in the US are astoundingly high and climbing every year.

Furthermore,if you don't die,you can develop lifelong health issues from diabetes to birth injuries to autoimmune disorders.

Then once you're a parent there are all the concerns that come with raising a child. Can you work or otherwise support your family or must you be dependent on your spouse or parents.

If you do work,how do you balance the increasing expectations of the workplace and it's incursions into your personal life? Do you have any idea the amount of administrators I've personally heard say things like"she has kids, I'm just not confidant she can handle the extra responsibility"?

Even of you don't get stuck with misogynist bosses, how do you handle a job and doctors appointments and birthday parties and enrichment classes and the appropriate amount of social interaction and one on one parenting time?

It's neverending and exhausting and no one who does not enthusiastically enter into it with a clear understanding of what it entails should be a parent.

@Blindbird It seems to me that every single person on earth has been at the mercy of this choice to have their life terminated before they're born, so I don't see how anyone could be excluded from this conversation. You also seem to assume that there is no way for a man to contribute and suffer from the raising of a child and that there is no release for a mother from her responsibilities.

For any giving actions there are sacrifices, but maternal mortality is an absurd figure to point out, as it is not connected to whether or not abortion is allowed. The U.S. does have high maternal mortality rates, but that is connected to bureaucracy and a lack of funding for maternal care. Ireland has banned abortion for near a hundred years but has less than a fifth of the U.S.' maternal mortality rate.

"If you don't die" is grossly overdramatic in comparison to the statistics. In 2015 the reported chance of a mother dying in the U.S. during a live birth was 0.000264%. Just being able to take on a disorder doesn't mean anything. I could get skin cancer from going outside, but that doesn't mean I'm going to live in a basement for the rest of my life. Furthermore, if getting a disorder is so much worse than killing the fetus, wouldn't maternal mortality be irrelevant as death seems to be a non-issue?

You don't have to be a parent after the child is born. No one is forcing anyone to raise a child. A child can be put up for adoption. And as for the emotional pain of adoption goes, abortion can't protect against that either, as it is brought on by hormones produced before and after pregnancy.

This paragraph seems to be very rationally dissonant. Your next point talks about how hard to manage child rearing can be. It seems like these administrators are in agreement with you.

Again, you don't have to raise the child alone or at all (although my mother figured it out). If you have a spouse, that's a whole other person to take up the responsibilities with you. Personally, I wouldn't look down on anyone who'd want to go for the adoption route either. It's a valid choice.

I agree with this last point. It's a lot to handle, and I've had the opportunity of witnessing the process as the second eldest of eight kids. But, abortion is no answer. I see no reason to see it as anything but the taking of another human life. I think it is highly irresponsible of our society to not treat the action with the weight it deserves, but I blame that on irrational theists who have poisoned the discourse.

@Sheitelhau neither you or anyone else has a right to demand that someone else take those risks. Period. The effects and risks of pregnancy and childbirth are very real and there's no way to predict with much accuracy whether a pregnancy will have adverse affects or not.
US law CLEARLY states that an individual is under no legal obligation to risk their health or life for the life of another individual.
If you demand that every woman carry every pregnancy to term you're creating a special class of people who's Rights are subservient to the rights of others. That is untenable in a free and equal society.
Furthermore you have absolutely not lived the reality of being a single mother. You have exactly zero experience of how it works. Therefore your opinion carries significantly less weight. You very simply know nothing about what you're opining on.

@Blindbird you think it's bad to force people to take such a miniscule risk? How about forcing an almost 100% risk of death? How is your argument not grossly hypocritical in this regard? Why on Earth does it matter what current U.S. law is? Isn't this conversation about what the law should be? And, aren't the human rights of the fetus entirely forfeit, whether you value them or not? Your arguments are so unprincipled they could easily be used to justify the euthanization of any child under 18! Your arbitrary decision that I am unqualified to give my opinion is nothing more than a diversion so that you can avoid strengthening your own arguments. Should all legislatures need to have a murdered family member in order to talk about the appropriate punishments for murderers?

0

I believe a person can be pro-life without being religious. I am against abortion and even when I was pro-choice I was against myself having one.

1

The late Nat Hentoff, longtime columnist for both the Village Voice and Free Inquiry, was very outspoken about both his atheism and his pro-life stance.

Looking up Mr. Hentoff’s thoughts on the matter was a very interesting read. Thank you for that.

0

I like the pro choice option better because it give people with life threatening problem an option. Also I do not think a rape victim should be obligated to carry her attackers baby. However people that use it as a form of birth control that bothers me.

0

No, I wouldn't say every pro-lifer is religious, but certainly more religious people would be pro-life. Pro life has a wider meaning for me.

1

I didn't for my children, but in general, I do. I don't know if all pro-life (I hate that term by the way) are religious, but religious people are more predisposed to reject science and women's rights.

JimG Level 8 Jan 22, 2018
1

I am aware of a lot of groups who are not pro-abortion, but would never use the term "pro-life" since that's just a term that has nothing to do with life at all. It's all about the fetus.

When I debate this issue with my conservative friends (believe it or not I have them), i use the term "Medical procedure" since that's pretty much what it is. A medical procedure between a woman and her doctor.

Still, I'm not sure how I personally feel about it. I don't argue "when life begins," but I do recognize that life or not, it is the "potential" for life. Potential in science can still be pretty significant. When I'm challenged by being asked, "well what if you were aborted?" I answer, "I wouldn't know. I wouldn't be here. Period. So there's no way I could logically answer that question."

It's a complicated issue, which is why pro-lifer's will never ever understand it.

1

They’re just words, I believe that every woman should have a choice, even if it’s one I wouldn’t choose for myself... no qualifiers (like rape, deformities, etc.) because it’s not my body to set rules for.

1

I know it was cruel but the mother to be annoyed me to no end with her "My baby, my child....is a God's gift."
I went to the Anatomy class in Dental school and I took a pic of the fetus we had in a jar....and showed it to her. She run screaming during 20 minutes.

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