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11 15

Take Two...

I am recycling my reply to another thread here as a stand-alone post, as requested by @bingst . All the secular movement needs to do to flourish is to meet people’s needs better than the competition does. Religious people are not opposed to science. They are opposed to having the only worldview they know taken away from them, the way science is slowly and painfully doing. Science itself however, is not a worldview; it’s a method of describing the natural world in objective terms. That’s useful as far as it goes, but humans also have a subjective experience of life which objectivity alone does not address. A worldview must be more than a basketful of unrelated facts, no matter how accurate. It must also guide people in how to live, how to reconcile their differences, and how to find peace of mind in a world of heartless competition and material hardship. It must show people how to reconnect with meaning, rather than telling them that there isn’t any, and they don’t need it.

The general public will not soon, in any great numbers, exchange their security blanket for the absence of a security blanket, but they would make the exchange in droves if they could turn in their tattered, two thousand year old security blanket for a fresh 2018 model that worked better. Think about this. The competition has brick and mortar training centers in every town with a population greater than a hundred people, and one on practically every corner in large cities. People don’t go to those places because they don’t have anything else to do on Sunday morning. They go because they have a deep human need that is not only not being met by science, but is being actively (in their perception) threatened by science. Secularism currently has nothing to offer those people except the absence of a philosophy, the absence of training, and the absence of any real understanding of their needs.

And why? It’s not because science doesn’t contain all the necessary ingredients for such a philosophy; it most certainly does. It’s because science isn’t in the business of generating philosophy, or taking care of people’s emotional needs preemptively, or instructing people on how to live wisely. Science has left that to the churches.

Secularism doesn’t need to go to war with religion, or with Republicans. It needs to outperform them in the competitive marketplace. It needs to understand the customer better and meet their needs better. If we really believe science is superior to superstition we need to demonstrate it, not just declare it louder. There is nothing scientific about pretending we are purely rational creatures. Science has long known that we have a complex emotional nature. There is nothing contrary to scientific principle about recognizing our whole nature. We don’t need to destroy the church. We need to bring it into the 21st century. Science alone is not equipped to do that, but an astute philosophy that adheres to science while understanding the broadest scope of human nature is.

People are really tired of superstition, and hungry for truth. But modern humans don’t even cook their own meals let alone build their own philosophies. The members here are exceptions; they are all DIY philosophers, but the general public, by and large, are not. An establishment that could assist them with that chore would not need to beg or cajole them for their patronage.

Science has long since overtaken superstition as a means of explaining natural phenomena, but Religion is still kicking Science's butt in marketing and service. Their product is a fully assembled worldview. Ours is a bucket of parts.

skado 9 Jan 24
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11 comments

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1

And thus, rationality fails to trump religion. Religion isn't going away, but we can go away from religion.

1

Great idea!
Some atheists are already doing that, in a way:

Atheist 'mega-churches' look for nonbelievers [usat.ly] via @usatoday

Very interesting. Thanks.

2

So the corollary question is then: HOW do we create this ‘establishment’ to assist them with a better worldview with better marketing and service?

That is indeed the question, and I don't yet know the whole answer, but I do think, for starters, it would involve learning to see religious people as allies instead of enemies.

@skado Interesting idea.

2

Something to think about for sure!

Donna Level 6 Jan 25, 2018
2

The proof of this well-reasoned post is the zeal with which Believers attempt to convert...they want you to be as full of joy as they are at "belonging". No amount of dry reasoning can replace that. We need tochange our outlook and aim if we hope to ever prevail! Can you communicate the freedom and happiness that comes when you live without feeling like every move is being watched & judged? THAT is what will set people free!

I agree that would have a very liberating effect.

4

I am constantly explaining to people that science doesn't try to disclaim religion. It simply doesn't care. It is interested in explaining what we can observe in the world and how it works that is all. It doesn't care what direction it takes them as long as we understand how the world does work. If that conflicts with religious thinking "just the facts ma'am".

2

they are all DIY philosophers, but the general public, by and large, are not. An establishment that could assist them with that chore would not need to beg or cajole them for their patronage.

That is one of the most profound statements I have read recently. Now the question is; "What kind of establishment could assist them?" I don't have a clue. Maybe you do. I would like to hear it and any discussion on that topic.

One thing I’ve learned from evolution is that sometimes traits that were evolved in one environment are co-opted for other purposes when the environment changes. This is especially useful when the environment changes more rapidly than physiological evolution can keep up. The agricultural revolution some 10 to 12 thousand years ago precipitated one such rapid change. Organized religion arose at about the same time, and I suspect, partly to help compensate for this abrupt lifestyle shift. I think of it as the time in our history when we really committed to taking our destiny in our own hands, unlike any other species. It required a counter balance; an artificial shoring up, or taming, of certain animal instincts. We’ll need that counter balance until we have time to physiologically evolve away from those instincts (hundreds of thousands of years) or until we get a lot better at genetic manipulation. Meanwhile, since it kept us upright, it became regarded as sacred and not to be tampered with. It stagnated while all secular culture progressed. The counter balancing qualities need to be examined scientifically, secularized, and brought up to date. Not abandoned.

I don’t know what the establishment would look like, but it might be more efficient to co-opt the existing system than to start from scratch. Momentum isn’t easy to replace. Replacing obsolete belief systems with science-based cognitive exercises might be easier if done from inside the church than from outside. Our big brains are prone to glitches and self inflicted suffering like finicky, expensive sports cars. Meditation, for example, is one of the exercises that have been put to this rebalancing task. I have developed a broader program that is working well for me, but quite lengthy to communicate.

3

Well put. Idk, but does the Universal Life Church fill this void? I cringe at anything that has the word church in it.

I'm not familiar with that church. Old associations are hard to shake, and honestly, we should do so only with the greatest of caution. But that caution should include a willingness to look at the deepest essence of the problem, no matter what we find there.

@skado The etylogical meaning of church is "from Greek kuriakon (d?ma ) ‘Lord's (house),’ from kurios ‘master or lord."
[etymonline.com]

Cool, thanks. Yes, words are powerful imagery. A lot of religious imagery is decipherable in more than one way. A literal interpretation for the general population, and a symbolic one for initiates. @EllenDale

2

This is even more evident when our science rank fell to about 10 on the academic scale. There needs to be a grater push for curiosity and understand of how complex things operate. Religion has an objective to raise membership because it raises the amount of money in the collection plate. Where science just expands your mind to be more creative to solve the big problems.

5

Ours is composed of many parts, many ideas and many philosophies. Not a finished product like theirs.

I'm with you. I don't want the package deal, but we are a minority.

2

Wow... powerful stuff...

Thanks.

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