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So I decided to join a Grief Share group even though it is held at a church and is based on the Christian Bible. ( Outsiders ARE welcome ) In the midst of conversation, someone mentioned that they wondered how non - believers would grieve ? Of course I raised my hand and spoke my mind. What would YOUR answer be ??

flowerchild62 6 Feb 4
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37 comments

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27

What an utterly ghastly and insulting comment from that person! Grief is a human condition common to everyone with feelings ... a religious person might express it through their faith and seek solace in prayer but an atheist just consoles themselves with the love of their friends and the comfort of understanding the reality of the situation.

Well said!

Beautifully put. 🙂

@TheMiddleWay you haven't insulted me in any way but the OP suggested that the questioner was incredulous that non-Christians can grieve without a religion. It, at the very least, shows a kind of conceit from the Christian that grief is only possible when you have belief.

It did not sound like insulting was intended but that they had no reference point to understand, if they were given an understanding of what is like to be a grieving atheist then perhaps they would not be so shocked that we can deal with it in the same ways.

You know the whole more flies with honey then vinegar thing. 😉

Boom! Good words. I find it discouraging that most forms of organized counseling (be it grief, substance abuse, etc.) all seem to center around bible worship. I have a friend that went to AA for help and they really wanted the help. Unfortunately, she wasn't aware of it's nature and her devout Atheism made the practice useless. Her desperation and optimism became worse until she thankfully found a local, small group that helped one another while omitting any belief system.

@TheMiddleWay it's true - it can be read both ways and I'd retract the "ghastly and insulting" part of my comment if the questioner was asking in an inclusive and genuinely interested way. But it still does seem an amazing conceit to not understand that non-Christians also grieve or to have difficulty imagining how they grieve. It suggests a particularly sheltered and insular view on the world - but I agree that my world-view is from Europe, not the US so my incredulity is probably cultural more than anything 🙂

I wasn't insulted. It's very hard to insult or offend me. I am very forgiving of other's nature.

15

To me that would seem like a stupid comment. What has belief got to do with grief, and if you believe in heaven, why grieve anyway?

very well said

@TheMiddleWay
Thanks for sharing your opinion.

15

Even animals grieve, and they have no idea what the concept of god is.

d_day Level 7 Feb 4, 2018

So true.

10

I question why grieving as an atheist would be different than grieving as a theist. How many people do you know that actually grieve easier because they have faith? A lot of people say things like "He's in a better place now", etc. But does that really change the level of grief that one goes through? Back when I was religious I would grieve a loss in just the same way as now. The thought of heaven didn't make it any easier.

8

I don't know if you are still active on FB, but I am a part of "grief beyond belief" group there. It's a very nice community, and no believers are allowed. In case you need to escape the religious "praying for you".
to answer your question, grief is very different for everyone, religious or not. I go through all the grief stages, sometimes they come back. I lock the pain away when I need to function, but sometimes allow myself to feel it. I remember everything good and bad associated with the person lost, and teach myself to live without them. Religious grievers irritate me with their "god wanted an angel" bullshit, but I do understand where they are coming from, so I let it go. I avoid conversations about my dead loved ones, because honestly nothing the well-meaning can tell me that would make me feel better.

I belong to that group also, Blizzard. I was also a member of a hospice-based grief group after my wife's death, not specifically religious, but when everyone in the group is loudly Christian, it becomes religious. When Grief Beyond Belief came along on Facebook a number of years later, I sooo wished it had been around earlier--it helped me a lot.

thank you Blizzard 🙂

@BikerDude50 I totally understand. I wished the same thing, but I am glad I found it nevertheless. One never really stops grieving, I think.

8

I wasnt in the group and each group has its own dynamics so a lot of my answer would have been some compromise for the group, - for my own safety. And I would need to know how others were likely to respond to me if I said something sharp because 'how' my answer came out would be as important as content. At this moment sitting here at my desk - I am thinking probably something like "What do you think is the difference between the feelings of a believer and a non believer?If you cut any one of us do we not bleed the same?"

8

Grief is NOT dependent on belief. It is dependent merely on loss of a loved one.

And before you go there, love is NOT a faith based activity, it is a bond between two people who feel deeply enough for each other that they decide to spend their lives in mutual support. To whit, people of every faith (and none) have experienced love so why would you expect that anyone of any faith (or none) would be capable of NOT feeling grief? Granted, this last under normal circumstances (meaning that someone who is sociopathic might not be capable of feeling the right emotions to experience grief, but, again, that is NOT a statement of faith, but of psychology).

@TheMiddleWay you are correct. I read the question as "if" versus "what method." However, I think that "if" answers the "how." Meaning that if someone without faith is grieving, they will grieve in a way in keeping with their normal life.

Myself, for example, I did NOT go bury myself in a church wallowing in faith because I lost my wife. Why? She did believe, I did not, and we respected each others stand. I imagine that with a husband who was more into religion, she would've attended church. With me, she did not (I would not and I would not have stopped her). Where I am headed is that I imagine if she had survived me, she might well have reached out (or been nudged towards) church for solace in grief. I was not and did not go that way.

Truth? I am still struggling with my grief, but no small part of that is that when she passed I was struggling with about every major stressor, or source of grief, we can expect to hit in life. I am still, in fact, reeling from those events (for the record, her passing and these events are coincidental, some expected, some not, some were culminating ore built up over time).

So, I guess the short of my answer could be summed up as "duh, the way they live their lives." Ok, to be nice about it, if you are buddhist, you will use those teachings to help you deal with grief, same goes for catholic, christian, jewish, taoist, etc... each goes to their lifes lessons to help them deal with adversity.

7

I am sorry. I am part a grief community on Facebook, Grief Beyond Belief. I am unfortunately part of a subgroup, Parent’s GBB. I encourage you to find the community on Facebook, it is helpful.

GBB is a great way to not feel utterly alone.

Thank you Nothinn X 🙂

6

We grieve exactly in the same way as other persons do.

and other animals.

@jlynn37 Exactly,. When my kitty Blair Amanda passed... Amadeus...my other four legged kid when w/o eating for two days.

6

If you're ever invited to an Irish wake up near Boston I highly recommend you go.
They are basically a drunken roast of the dearly departed. I've never laughed so hard in my life hearing the stories of my dad and his brothers.

6

The question they posed to you is representative of the problem. Believers feel they have a handle on a truth that non believers aren't privy to. Granted the reverse can be true for some none believers too. Fundamentally I think we all process it in the same way. We morn(celebrate?) the deceased ones departure and ruminate (hopefully celebrate) over the life they led. I never felt the need to disabuse my parents of the notions that they found comfort in, as false as those comforts seemed to me.

6

So if they were curious and simply wondered how do people without a belief in an afterlife grieve, that is a reasonable question, since one of the main points of religion is to help people get over the sheer terror of death so they can simply live, by imagining for them a nice place they will go after death. And my answer is, I just let the tears come when they come, I try to do meaningful rites, memorials, etc., and I try to carry on the positive spirits of the people who died, understand what they taught me and pass it on to the world.

6

Well, everyone here has said pretty much exactly what I was going to say.
But that question from that poor ignorant soul is almost as bad as "How can atheist have morals if they don't believe in God?"

6

Animals grieve and they don't even know anything about humans unrealistic beliefs

Yes they DO !

5

My late wife left these instructions: "Spread my ashes in Forest Lake [Wisconsin] so that everyone will know where to find me." That is what I did in 2011 with her sister and best friend. Every summer since then I go up to the family cottage, take a kayak out onto the lake, and try to get a sense of her presence there. And that is how I grieve these days. Being out in nature, knowing she's a part of it, is a lot more comforting to me than the thought that she's in a crowded fairy-tale heaven with rivers of milk. I hate milk, and so did she.

5

Every year around granpas passing I like to throw flowers in the water- I kiss the bloom tell him how much I miss him and throw them in- I know this is just an activity for those who are left- I know grandpa doaent really give two shits- but when im down there with my father- we add people this flower is for grand ma and grandpa tourse this is for unkle John amd bill- its like a little rwmberance for everyone that year- and that could hardly be Bad thing I think

I think that's lovely.

Yes - it's a very good thing !! <3

4

Sounds similar to the philosophy run by AA and Al-Anon. I went to one meeting of the latter with my ex (her mother was an alcoholic, and eventually died through alcohol abuse) and the whole thing felt too religious for my liking. The organisation claims to be 'spiritual' rather than 'religious', but the whole thing puts too much emphasis on faith in 'a higher power', and that just doesn't work for me.

I've lost a parent. I've lost two grandparents (the other two died before I was born) and I've lost several pets. I've yet to experience a level of grief that I couldn't cope with internally. I think the only thing that would stand a chance of pulling me to pieces is if my son dies before I do. Or possibly a partner, if I ever actually fall in love again.

I imagine the immediate loss is the same for both religious and non-religious. Perhaps the religious might seek comfort in the belief that the deceased is watching over them (frankly, I find that idea more disturbing than comforting - some things that I do are private) but even if you believe you're going to be reunited in an afterlife at some point, you're still dealing with that immediate loss and absence of that person in your life. The thoughts popping into your head to call them, or the phone ringing and you thinking it might be them that's calling you, take a while to go away, and are quite jarring while they still happen.

3

HUMANS grieve. You, ie. the person asking the question about non-believers, don't consider non-believers human. Please, correct your thinking.

2

In some ways, I have to applaud this person for asking this question. My answer would be: I think that non-believers grieve in much the same way that believers grieve. The main difference is that we do not have the delusion that those people are sitting on a cloud someplace, strumming on an archaic stringed instrument, waiting to greet us when we eventually shuffle off this mortal coil as well. As somebody else, here, said, grief is a human condition. When somebody I know dies, I know that they live on in my memories and the memories of those they touched during their lives.

2

We grieve pretty much like anyone else (even some of the higher animals grieve). And while we have no hopes of seeing our loved ones in an afterlife, we also don't have to worry that they won't go to heaven.

2

I am so sorry for your loss. Of course we (non christians) grieve, just because we don't have an imaginary friend doesn't mean we don't have emotions and attachments to other people. What a loathsome comment.

1

Where's the rule that says grieving is exclusive for religious people?? Christians are funny. That's the same when they say that atheists have no morals...but then again and again are the preachers and the priests the ones that rape women and children. Some of them say that God is a moral compass. Definitely that moral compass is broken.
Anyway in my case knowing that the bible is BS I try to find comfort in laughter when I'm grieving. I try to be close to people or things that make me laugh. It works for me.

1

I'd say that I am a human and grieve like all humans do, believers and unbelievers alike. I took up a study of thanatology (the study of death and dying and human responses and rituals associated with it) after my previous wife's death. I find that that scientific field completely explains the grief process without religious cruft. Very usefully in fact, especially the conceptualization of a "grief spiral" that explains the emotional ups and downs so very well.

I think believers do not mean to be demeaning with such questions. As a former evangelical, I can tell you that they have been conditioned to regard their god-beliefs as completely necessary to deal with death, when in fact they're an impediment. They see grief as bad enough even WITH god, therefore, how much worse would it be WITHOUT him.

They would be surprised (if their minds were open to begin with) to discover that it's actually in many ways EASIER to cope with grief and loss without the extra religious cruft. You bypass all the completely useless WHY questions (why me, why them, why now, why is god punishing me, why didn't god intervene, etc etc etc). Life is just stuff happening, it's not a prewritten plan that you have to decipher.

1

I am very sorry for your grief, an I extend hope that you find the resources to heal. This is just a horrible thing to say to someone dealing with, well, anything. Got to love the team mentality of Western Religion. I cannot honestly say how I would have personally responded, but I can guarantee that my word choice would not be appropriate for either a therapy group or a church. I hope that you were more diplomatic in your actions. All the best.

1

Except for having an absurd idea that our deceased loved ones are hanging out in some fairytale resort for ghosts, we grieve the same. People go through the five stages of grief regardless of religious indoctrination. Doesn't that prove that on a subconscious level theists know their belief is foolish?

JimG Level 8 Feb 4, 2018
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