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QUESTION Erotic Intelligence: The secret to desire in a long-term relationship

"So what sustains desire, and why is it so difficult? And at the heart of sustaining desire in a committed relationship, I think, is the reconciliation of two fundamental human needs. On the one hand, our need for security, for predictability, for safety, for dependability, for reliability, for permanence. All these anchoring, grounding experiences of our lives that we call home. But we also have an equally strong need -- men and women -- for adventure, for novelty, for mystery, for risk, for danger, for the unknown, for the unexpected, surprise -- you get the gist."


In long-term relationships, we often expect our partners to be both best friend and erotic partner. I know this is true for me.

Esther Perel is a Belgian psychotherapist notable for exploring the tension between the need for security and the need for freedom in human relationships.

Take special note starting at minute-marker 5:08 --- what she learned after visiting more than 20 countries asking people what they found themselves most drawn to in their partner. Not attracted sexually, per Se, but most drawn. She discovered that across culture, religion, and gender -- there were a few answers that kept coming back.

Watch to find out what those answers were. It's one of the reasons why I think having separate bedrooms can be very beneficial for long-term relationships.

If you can't watch the video, the transcript is available in the link.

VictoriaNotes 9 Feb 4
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15 comments

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2

This was an eye opening discussion. Gave me answers as to why my long term relationship failed. I'll need to revisit this talk. Thanks for posting.

4

Thank you so much for posting this video. There is a LOT of info to take in here. One has to listen to it a few times to get everything she is saying. I find this very fascinating indeed.

3

Thank you all for sharing such intimate history. ...maybe I missed your words reflective of USA sexual revolutionaries ??? I cannot recall a single night of love that was not verbally and artistically declared a revolt from patriarchy theocracy and war
.....1964 until today I have lived my romantic life completely dedicated to : " HER " pleasure ....even deliberately "making a baby" now 23 was 24 years ago this month a evening knowing ovulation would be most assured through orgasm. ....of course women in every generation were kept out of joy and kept in painful servitude but not my spouses not my lovers

2

Yes I like to feel safer protected by my lover as I protect her mutually. ...and the journey from mystery to union is cyclical. ...she can't tell me enough of what she experiences and I answer any question she has for my internal less than visible sensations. ....I suppose I should watch this video and read the transcript but I fear my longing for love in my current single living will be tempted deeper not reassuring for a new love to chose ME SOON

3

the responsibility for ALL my experiences is always with me. expectation is the killer of any kind of connection with each other. it is as simple & as difficult as that - if i want to experience love, desire, erotic, etc. i have to be free to open up on that level & play, not expect anything from my playmate. for that reason i like the home(s) Frida Kahlo & Diego Rivera built for themselves.

@VictoriaNotes, i may have expectations - like i have an itch from a hypertrophic scar (this to be taken both literally & metaphorically) - but i don't want to pay too much, if any attention to it, because in the end it's just that: an itch grown out of trauma in time gone by. i do a lot of birdwatching & -feeding, & just love the way animals may have certain expectations, but never grown out of fear, but rather habit. i think that's the point we really have to avoid: having expectations built on our fear of losing or losing out. if "my" birds' expectations don't get fulfilled, there is never rebuke or retribution i sense. i'm aware of them "just' being birds, but if we "just" could fly... ultimately, whether i have expectations or not, i do own them; so i can't blame the other for having them disappointed. in regards to the Kahlo-Rivera marriage: i'm not sure how much of the pain she suffered i could bear over time without going off the rails - 1. or 2.hand pain, that is. also, thank you for raising an interesting & deep issue 🙂

I suspect there was more promiscuity in their shared garden and separate homes. ...I know Frida made love to Trotsky with MRS TROTSKY not likely sexually harassed by Diego

@GreenAtheist, yes, &?

@walklightly the architectural possibilities for marriage were great by the two artists and for normal people today but Frida and Diego betrayed such fidelity

@GreenAtheist, what about if their aim was never fidelity? how about an open marriage?

@walklightly maybe after their baby died but not before the divorce

@GreenAtheist, Frida Kahlo never had a baby.

@walklightly yes she did paint a portrait of her 7 month dead fetus spontaneously aborted

@GreenAtheist, a fetus, yes, not a baby.

@walklightly I stand corrected. ...I should know better. ...I scream back @ tampon terrorists who scream 3 centimeter embryonic goo equals 20 inch full term fetal viable deliveries. ...AN ACORN IS NOT A TREE

L 😀 L @GreenAtheist

1

You should know by now I will take notes. The link between sex, babies and sexual disruption is so apparent yet it is never discussed.

I have trouble accepting that this is the first period that women want sex for pleasure and connection rooted in desire and not for baby making. I think that might be more of a social construct than an individual one. There have been plenty of women in the past who were sexually active and did not want kids (my aunt who was born in 1915 was one of them).

The sustaining desire part, I feel, was missing some important items, companionship, love, knowledge (seeing things from another’s perspective), connectedness to name a few.
I agree “But we also have an equally strong need -- men and women -- for adventure, for novelty, for mystery, for risk, for danger, for the unknown, for the unexpected, surprise” is also sought after and that often a relationship (marriage) can squelch those needs (even so, all those things can be and often are present in any relationship especially the surprise part).

I totally agree with the foregone conclusion part. To me that is reduced through variety; eating the same food day in and day out becomes boring. There are a huge variety of foods out there so there is no need for boredom (and I’m not talking about partner variety).

One thing that is missing concerns the type and stage of the partnership. When one is starting out the need for resources is paramount and one has to exchange some ideals for simple survival. With some of us that is no longer the case.

I strongly believe people evolve. Having multiple relationships (not at the same time) helps in this process. Unfortunately, one can evolve in a negative direction. I have read “Sex at Dawn” and found a lot of things true. I still have a problem with the “other” and their “red light district”. I am hearing, multiple partners and, for me that is not a viable option. To want a relationship/partnership is to be willing to work at getting one’s wants met with one person at a time.

I found a lot of truth in the clip but also a lot of stereotyping and generalizations. Not everyone has had the same experiences or want the same things. Yes, one would be extremely lucky to find an ideal partnership (I was) but one has also to continually evolve and be flexible. What is the expression? “Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.”

@VictoriaNotes Thank you for sharing.
From what I have experienced people, all over, are the same but individuals are different. It is said next to physical evolution cultural evolution is the slowest to change. But cultural mores from the turn of the century are vastly different. Women and minorities have more power and they are flexing their muscles which I seriously think is about time. It takes some of the pressure off us guys (some guys anyway).

My mother was kind of the same way. She got married at 17 ( had me at 18 ) and was still living at home. I don't think she ever knew what she wanted (she told me she wanted to have lot of kids). They often did not sleep together because he snored. She slept most of the time on the couch (she also liked to read murder mysteries and would stay up late). When my dad died we tried to get her to date but she didn't seem to care. She always seemed happy. Most of my siblings have taken the same path; career, marriage, kids (an occasional affair), staid marriages. One brother was different and so was I, very, very different. Funny, I sensed this difference even as a child.

I had a woman come to the door the other day from the county assessors office. She called me a name and I had to tell her a story, which made her laugh. In Iran the woman keeps her maiden name when married. However, the kids get the fathers name. When Parvin came to the U.S. and got her citizenship her husband talked her into changing her name to his to make things easier (Pedram). When we got married she told me she wanted to go back to her maiden name (Baharloo). We loved to tease so I said "what makes you think you can have my name, you know I don't just give my name to anyone". She said thank you. Little did I know I would become Mr. Baharloo (this is what the woman called me). You know what? I don't care and sometimes even feel honored. It's no bloody deal. Names and symbols and even some traditions don't matter.

1

Espectacular, it's all very familiar.
Thanks 🙂

2

My wife and I had a blast during the first 10 years of our being together. A lot of adventure shared. Than the kids came and for several reasons we were forced to live apart. My wife in the family home, I in an apartment. My office and bedroom. I slept in the family home regularly and by day I was there most of the time, sharing the family things. It was a time under pressure, but still I suspect that living apart together for a few years has been the savior of our relationship in the period that there was a lot of pressure. At a certain moment there became more structure in our life and I found a regular job and gave up my apartment. We decided to share the home again. Since this time we also sleep in one bed again. Apart from the fact that that is not the best for the best chances of a good rest, it feels comfortable and close. Many years ago already, we accepted that we can't fulfill all each-others needs completely, but both of us have as much space we need to enjoy our life together. We managed to be together for about 44 years, so we must do something good, whatever some psychologist might think of how we did it. Apparently we both get enough out of our partnership and friendship to be pretty happy.

Gert Level 7 Feb 4, 2018

@VictoriaNotes So am I as you can understand 🙂.

That can work both ways. A previous relationship I had was with a woman with 'mild' alcoholic problems. Too much time together the stress would build up so would the drinking. She was an academic advisor for a U.S. University in Europe and traveled extensively. She was gone at least 1/4 of the time. That separateness kept us together longer than it should have.

0

This had me at "foreplay starts when your last orgasm ends." Scheduling sex with your s.o. Is where it's at. And it doesn't preclude the odd bonus round. You both behave more intentionality when when you both know when things are about to uh...go down. This has been my experience. Sadly past tense.

dopaminergic...nice. I had to Google it, just to be sure.

@VictoriaNotes thanks!

@VictoriaNotes Do you think it is possible to circumvent that reaction? I do.

2

Thanks for the share. I learned something from this video. Esther Perel is intelligent, knowledgeable, and entertaining.

0

Separate bedrooms or perhaps separate houses...

When I used to travel for work a lot of the time, it was much easier to have a good relationship as being together was more novel and exciting.

Now I haven't lived with anyone for 10+ years. Not that my girlfriends haven't spent a lot of time with me including days or weeks together. But the fact that we each have our own private space seems to work well.

Of course the converse is that perhaps mediocre relationships last longer because of that space whereas with more concentrated time together we'd get sick of each other sooner... 🙂

@VictoriaNotes That's definitely true, The older you are, the more you know what you like and don't like. Typically you are also less willing to compromise. It's amazing how "little things" like how you load the dishwasher cause so much conflict in relationships.

Another motivation to live apart is finances. I already lost half of what I earned in a divorce. It was hard to make up for that and I can't afford to do it again.

@VictoriaNotes Unfortunately, I think there is a bit of stereotyping in that statement. Not all couples fight over household chores. I am one example and I know of a few others.

@shockwaverider I think if one fights over loading the dishwasher there is a deeper problem.
For me compromising with the attitude both win something worked.
As for the financial, if a couple has an amicable relationship one should be able to have an amicable break up (I know not always true). Living separately often requires more finances than living together where each one contributes. There always is the option of a pre-nup.

@JackPedigo Definitely a pre-nup. Amicable breakups turn nasty when lawyers get involved and want to bill more time. Also, when you are comfortable financially, people often want to take advantage of that and / or are encouraged to do so by friends, family, or lawyers. Especially when there is a huge disparity in income and / or assets. I paid $3,800.00/month in spousal support with zero kids to give you an idea of my perspective.

Agreed on the lack of compromise being an issue. What if you started living with someone and they left dirty clothes on the floor or left the kitchen and bathroom a total mess, or drove your car and often came home with an empty tank? Some things, it is hard to compromise on...

@shockwaverider I find having a lack of basic consideration the same as not caring about the relationship. It takes effort on both parts. In today's world one should know those things beforehand no matter how long it takes.

@VictoriaNotes Thank you "In general".
No your probably are not alone and I have also been there. But there are always exceptions. You and I have lived alone long enough to know how to take care of ourselves and don't need another to do it for us (again need vs want). This is how Parvin and I were, except (a big one) she had no idea of how a house worked. I am Mr. super handyman and that was MY job - which I love anyway).

1

Love Esther.

1

I like Ester Perel and her take on relationships. I feel as though she has quite a practical approach.

0

"It's one of the reasons why I think having separate bedrooms can be very beneficial for long-term relationships."

I'll second that. My wife was financial controller for a custom home contracting business years ago in Calgary when the money was still flowing (I.e. pre-2007). In many of these million dollar homes, the clients wanted 2 master bedrooms for the reasons you cite.

1

Different from my first 2 girl friends that were best friends of mine first.... My wife was never my friend... never on 19 years of marriage a best friend. We could argue and still find us in the bed as if nothing happened. But since we got separated I never once desired her again. So divorce been easy just like separation was easy. I just lost a sex partner. I knew there will be others. Some connected with me at a different level she never could... maybe because I didn't let her. Every human is different. I never saw her as a lifetime thing for me.

@VictoriaNotes Only way you can learn to love yourself for being yourself is removing all the sugar coating we display to the world and whatever is left. That's who you are... I failed her... I know, she knows, my children know. I will have to live with it. That connection wasn't for her to have. And is too late to figure out why. She is grateful I didn't tried to held her hostage. I am hoping husband nr 3 will be the charm. At least she is going slow not like nr 2. I learned my lessons... no other wife until all connections established. I will like it to last until the end of our days.

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