Agnostic.com

5 5

How scientists change their minds.

One of the major differences between religion and science is how we handle changes in long-standing theories and overall mindsets.

Religion demands you adhere to doctrine, despite clear and convincing evidence to the contrary. "It's in the Bible, God said it, I believe it, that settles it" is a montra that is actually taught in churches.

Science on the other hand changes with new evidence. We may not like it. It may be inconvenient especially if the entire premise of your graduate thesis rests on a now disproven theory. But we adapt. We update. We change and move on.

The best example I like to give for this comes from organic chemistry. On your first day of class, you're taught about "vitalism".

Vitalism: A theory that an organic molecule cannot be produced from inorganic molecules, but instead can only be produced from a living organism or some part of a living organism. The theory was disproved in the early part of the 19th century.

Vitalism suggested that an organic molecule such as urea cannot be synthesized solely from inorganic sources. It was believed that synthesis of urea required a living organism or some part of a living organism, such as a kidney. The theory was disproved by Friedrich Wohler, who showed that heating silver cyanate (an inorganic compound) with ammonium chloride (another inorganic compound) produced urea, without the aid of a living organism or part of a living organism.

Can you imagine what it was like to be Friedrich Wohler? He must've done something wrong. Nonsense. Vitalism has been accepted and proven for centuries. It's a publicity stunt. He's lying to get funding. All sorts of ridicule and accusations.

But eventually we calm down, examine the evidence, duplicate the results time and time again, we change, update our textbooks and move on.

ScienceBiker 8 Feb 4
Share

Enjoy being online again!

Welcome to the community of good people who base their values on evidence and appreciate civil discourse - the social network you will enjoy.

Create your free account

5 comments

Feel free to reply to any comment by clicking the "Reply" button.

0

Wöhler discovered that chemical reaction producing urea, now called the 'Wöhler synthesis', in 1828, but it only disproved one aspect of Vitalism, it didn't kill off Vitalism entirely then as it should have. Like religionists of today retreat and regroup when scientific evidence proves them wrong about something, so did they then. Vitalism was the dominant explantion for much more than the production of organic molecules, with much of physiology falling under its umbrella. In essence, any physiological process that wasn't understood in physical terms just had to be so complicated that it could only be working through the direct intervention of God supplying a 'vital principle' that kept it going, and from which Vitalism got its name. We see vestiges of this stupid way of thinking even today when Creationists complain that an eye is just too complicated to ever have come about through evolution, therefore only their God could have created eyes. But they don't call it Vitalism anymore, and Vitalism is now officially dead as an explanation for any physiologic processes.

What happened to kill Vitalism was that one thing at a time got slowly figured out by science, with the Vitalists only grudgingly retreating each time, no doubt with much of the kind of 'fake news' fervor we are seeing today as ScienceBiker alluded to. Soon after Wöhler's synthesis of urea, more 'organic' molecules were synthesized from inorganic substrates by other people, proving that urea wasn't some weird exception to the rule of Vitalism. Then it was shown that the pressure of the blood caused its movement, not magic. Nerve impulses were shown to be electrical in nature, not magic. Energy for metabolism was shown to come from food, not magic. And so it went -- science chipped away at Vitalism this way, although slowly and resisted at each step. It took a good hundred plus a few years after Wöhler's work for science to drive the last stake, not into the heart of Vitalism which everyone knew by then was just a physical pump, but into its kidneys, the final holdouts. For surely kidneys were too complicated, the Vitalists said, for their functioning to ever be explainable by physical principles, and only God could be making them work. When really, science just hadn't figured them out yet.

Then in the 1930's the brilliant renal physiologist Homer Smith performed a series of reproducible experiments demonstrating the physical forces which enabled kidneys to cleanse the blood and help maintain the body's homeostasis. Vitalism lost the last leg it had been standing on, and went away for good.

If only we could somehow similarly cut the legs out from under all the religion-driven forces of today which threaten to harm us all either quickly through nuclear war or slowly through climate change.

NDEer Level 3 Mar 5, 2018
1

I am a scientist specifically a biologist and this is why I'll take science over religion any day!! To the religious this our weakness to everything else that matters, this our strength and the virtue on which the rest of the world depends on!!

0

Science is self-correcting. Faith-based beliefs can change but faith in-and-of-itself does not require evidence and can be believed in despite the evidence.

2

It's terrifying yet exciting. Back in a day I was taught that I could get sick from having wet feet, or get a cold from a draft, or meningitis from not wearing a hat in winter... So so many things. Once I started science, I never went back, and re-discovered so much. Re-evaluation of the things we knew as kids is so exciting. I remember how in bio class we were taught that human embryo goes through the earth evolutionary stages. back then I thought "Damn this is so cool!", and now it's all bullshit, and the books reflect that change. We live in an exciting time, where admitting previous scientific wrongs would not send you to be burned at the stake.

1

The speed of light in a vacuum is still being scrutinized, tested, and pondered. If something as basic as that is not thought of as an absolute after all this time, what can be?

@ScienceBiker -- Only works as a rhetorical comment because 'wet' is a subjective adjective that applies to any liquid where the molecular cohesive force is lower than the adhesive force, but I get it.

You're welcome. I'm here from time to time, usually when I'm dry.

@ScienceBiker -- The world would be a sad place indeed without such exchanges, my friend. Never hold back for there are many of us who appreciate it.

There is no special reason to suppose that the speed of light has always had the value that it has now.

@Coffeo nor is there any reason at all to suppose that the speed of light has ever varied from what it is today, don't you agree?

@NDEer -- According to Answers in Genesis's astronomer Lisle, there is. Everybody knows his reckoning is accurate because it agrees to the letter with the good book.

Read the following and be "enlightened"....

[answersingenesis.org]

@evidentialist oh of course, that authoritative site proves it so beyond doubt, how could I have even questioned it? 🙂

@NDEer -- you are a gentleman indeed.

@NDEer There are, I think, some reasons for thinking it might have changed. [livescience.com]

@Coffeo that's an interesting article, thanks for the link. It's pure speculation and no evidence, but that's where all science starts. I'd like to see someone test it experimentally:

"To find this tiny fluctuation, the researchers say, one could measure how light disperses at long distances. Some astronomical phenomena, such as gamma-ray bursts, produce pulses of radiation from far enough away that the fluctuations could be detected."

But would this really be a valid way to test it? We know that the conventional standard is 'the speed of light in a vacuum' and that light slows down when it passes through transparent matter (solid, liquid, or gas), with the higher-energy light (which in the visible range is toward the blue end of the spectrum) slowing down more. This is what makes a prism separate light into its component wavelengths. The amount that any given wavelength of light slows down in matter is also dependent upon the density of the matter, with higher densities slowing light down more.

The problem is, space isn't a perfect vacuum. There are atoms and occasionally molecules and even dust-like particles floating around in it everywhere, giving it a certain amount of density. A very low density to be sure (on the order of an atom or two in every cubic centimeter but higher or lower in different regions) so especially over vast distances that should have some effect on the speed of light in the kind of astronomical experiment the article suggests, and invalidate the experiment.

[hypertextbook.com]

@NDEer Sure. My point is simply that we can't, at present, be sure one way or the other.

@Coffeo Well sure, essentially that's always the case in science because everything is always open to being reevaluated in the light of new evidence, so nothing can be said to be forever and truly 'sure' in an absolute sense -- continuing to be 'believed in', in the face of damning evidence against it and in support of something else. Somebody comes up with an idea challenging the existing dogma, and if their idea proves right, new dogma replaces the old, that's how science works (using 'dogma' loosely here). So if someone could scientifically prove the world was really flat and at the center of the universe, science would have to go with it and abandon all that old-fashioned Copernican and and Galilean dogma, right? Just like if someone could prove the speed of light in a vacuum is not a constant. 🙂

@NDEer Science is not about proof. Proof is a mathematical thing.

@Coffeo hairsplitting over word definitions gets us nowhere; sufficient evidence constitutes 'proof' in science. The fact that the word has a more specialized meaning in mathematics circles does not change that.

Here's an interesting report about the speed of light: [phys.org]

@NDEer Sorry, but word definitions are important. Also, a demonstration that photons cannot travel faster than light is not sufficient to demonstrate that the velocity of light is constant at all times and in all places. Of course, it might be: I'm not claiming that it isn't.

@Coffeo, if word definitions are important to you, you look them up, don't make them up. Then they don't need to be quibbled over like armchair philosophers get off on. Here's Google's defintion of the word Proof in the context of science as used here, with some examples. You should be able to easily tell from this that there are many ways science is about proof of things:

[google.com]

proof
pro͞of
noun

evidence or argument establishing or helping to establish a fact or the truth of a statement.

"you will be asked to give proof of your identity"

synonyms:
evidence, verification, corroboration, authentication, confirmation, certification, documentation, validation, attestation, substantiation

"proof of ownership"

@NDEer / @Coffeo -- Yes, indeed, the definitions and connotations of words are incredibly important. Unfortunately, the Google definition is limited to the general use for the word whereas in given disciplines the word 'proof' takes an entirely different turn. The following is an article that should 'prove' useful in your future pursuits:

[forbes.com]

You may also find the following videos of some interest, oh, and please forgive the simplistic nature of the videos, they were quick and easy to find:

Write Comment
You can include a link to this post in your posts and comments by including the text q:21006
Agnostic does not evaluate or guarantee the accuracy of any content. Read full disclaimer.