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Is sending a child to sunday school child abuse?

There is a debate to be had here. The rights of the parents to teach their children the way they see fit, versus the rights of the child to be educated in a proper manner. When children go to sunday school, they are taught that their religion (or parents religion to be more accurate) is completely true, and are far to young to defend themselves. Here is how I would like to see society change. This is what we should say to our children 'some people believe in a god, and some people don't. It is up to you to make up your own mind' Should this not be the message that we encourage all parents to have? Please feel free to disagree, but please tell me why you disagree if you do, thanks

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  • 14 votes
RobH86 7 Feb 9
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18 comments

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0

forcing a child to undergo religious indoctrination under the threat of being burned for eternity is nothing less than terrorism. If any of us adults have a choice of being burned alive or shoot a stranger and be released, most of us will shoot the stranger. This is the same thing that the moslems do to produce suicide bombers.

1

I have asked my children, who are both in their late twenties, this very question: Do you regret, or in any way feel harmed, by the decision your mother and I made to send you to church and Sunday school, culminating in your confirmation in your early teens? Both of our children know of, and to some extent, share my philosophical journey, and yet both do not feel in any way diminished by their church experience. But then, our family was not as focused on doctrines as much as actions. We made trips to Mexico to build houses (most Americans would call them hovels) for unimaginably impoverished families, and we volunteered locally. Plus, we participated in, and truly loved, the music. And so, while it appears that our kids have no regrets--and if they don't, neither do we--I must admit to wondering what it will be like for the next generation!

1

There are far worse versions of child abuse, surely?

Honestly, it was for me. But that the abuse stemmed from a group leader rather than the actual school itself.

The abuse of one should not reflect the intent of the whole.

Agreed, there are far worse versions of abuse, but I can't help but feel that children do have the right to be educated in a fair and proper way

If you don't mind my asking, did the abuse entail anything beyond indoctrination?

1

Guess what? Parents can’t go to church or do anything unless they can find child care! As long as no one is hitting the kids I’m not going to call it abuse. Encouraging parents to educate their kids a certain way is one thing, requiring it is another.

Lauxa Level 5 Feb 11, 2018

fair point well made

2

It is forced indoctrination into a cult, that seems to be in the legal definition of child abuse.

0

I think it has a strong potential. I am against anyone telling me how I should raise my child (I don't btw), but I think that religion should be taught as a socio-political cultural phenomenon in public schools. There fore the parent indoctrinated child will at least be better informed about beliefs being pushed on to them .

1

It matters not what you believe, your child is innocent, until you corrupt them

Many atheists call child indoctrination abuse. I wouldn't unless it's into one of the abusive cults. How many stories have you heard from Catholics about being beaten and tormented for misbehavior? Indoctrination also happens with kids in public schools. They are taught concepts that separate "races" from each other. That's one among others. The human race needs to wake up and care for its diverse members.

1

Children don't come into the world with any clue about gods or religions or politics or nationality. They absorb what they are exposed to. I think they should be presented with all points of view, and to be taught how to THINK critically - I.E. is there any basis in fact for what I am being told? I doubt any child raised to think for itself would readily swallow religion, or blind political loyalty, or even patriotism. Most people here only came to these conclusions somewhat later in life, and it's sad. For many people, early indoctrination is difficult to overcome.

Agreed. So what is the answer? Is there an answer?

I understand patriotism if you fear your neighbor. May we kill religion and have much less reason to fear our neighbors.

1

Absolutely !

good man

4

From what I discovered as young child, the prime reason for dispatching us to Sunday school had little to do with saving souls, but more to do with dad being assured of getting at least one uninterrupted bonk per week !

I knew this couple sending their boys to Sunday school for pretty much that reason. it backfired when one of their sons became 'born again." They had not taken that risk into account.

1

fuck yes

top man

1

If i do a church thing i will insist that im there as well she never gose with just the folks

1

I say "no" - it is not child abuse in my opinion.
Yet it will become one if they proceed doing so, after the child had stated he/she doesn't want to go there.
As per myself, I am definitely not going to send my child (or children) to such an institution, yet there is quite a list of extra-curriculum stuff that I believe they need to learn and will definitely seek to at least introduce them to it.
So if we assume that sending a child to a Sunday school, while not against the child's will, is abuse, then sending a child to any form of extracurricular activity, should be considered so. To this I strongly disagree.

Appreciate the comment. Thank you. But I do have to disagree with your argument. I would say there is nothing wrong with extra curricular activities such as art, sport, music etc, even religion to a point. But it is the way religion is taught. Teaching children that god watches them at all times and that he even knows what you are thinking at all times and can punish you just for thinking privately to yourself, this can only be abuse. I think you can teach children about religion without forcing it on them. This would be fine. My post was more about the rights children have to be educated in a fair, reasonable and proper manner

Well... to be honest I have no idea what exactly happens at the "Sunday school", and also its effect strongly depends on the society out of it which I think may be different than the one I am used to (I am a city kid, grown up in a pretty non-religious society, and so on).
But a zealous priest, teaching (or rather preaching) in a small, very religious community can definitely turn such an institution into a form of abuse, yet this is a fault of the community in general, the "Sunday school" being just one of the symptoms.

Blogo84, you express pretty much what I was vaguely feeling ... don't label stuff abuse if you don't want to be measured by the same stick. But I also agree with RobH86. It depends on the type of Sunday school. But how would you monitor things like this? I'm pretty much as "liberal" as they come, but would not like to see certain schools of Islam spreading - in the West or anywhere really. And I guess many of the volunteers or whoever is doing this sunday school stuff would not be the sort of folks I'd let near my child.

It is funny how while we argue, actually we agree. It strongly depends on the people that run the specific institution and this goes not only to the religious schools.
I for one do remember, that when I was a schoolboy back in the 90's (the "wild" years of the Bulgarian transition), some of the martial art training halls in my city actually served as training and recruitment centers for the local criminal gangs. So, every institution can be corrupted into an abuse den.

2

Any place that takes children and sits here and waves hell, and heaven, the idea of the devil, of sin, and so much more over their heads. Before that child is able to reason, and process right from wrong as many of these churches and programs do. Are at the very least toxic, and using fear as a weapon. I think if it isn't abuse, it's very close to passing that ledge.

It's very much about control, and fear. Which is the basis for most abuse cases.

Very much agreed

1

Depends on the Sunday school.

To the best of my knowledge, They teach children that god definately exists, teaching them that things like noahs ark and adam and eve are literally true. I am sure there would be the odd church here and there that see these stories as more of a metaphor, I would be interested to see how they run a class for teaching all things holy to children

4

Yes .As a catholic I was forced to go to religious instruction and dreaded it . I always got in trouble for not going and this caused me to be unhappy and depressed . I had to memorize idiotic prayers .At the time I did not even question their validity.It was not until I got older that I realized they were nonsense. To prove the power of brain washing, 50 years later I can still remember word for word many of these prayers,yet I can not remember a telephone number

I can remember the illustrations depicting the various grades of sin in the Baltimore Catechism

There you go. Childhood stays with you.

The final words in your letter are so true Richiegtt, programme the brains while they are young and you have them for life.

0

Criminalizing Sunday School would only swing government oppression in the opposite direction, although that would likely be the best for the child.

Good point. I think maybe it would be more beneficial to change the way that children are taught during this time, I am sure when it comes to things like teaching children the difference between right and wrong, or about respect or kindness, beleivers and non believers could agree on many things. The finer details being taught could saved for when the child is older and would be more prone to listening to reason

@RobH86 Unfortunately, we have no jurisdiction over churches and Sunday School teaching methods, but it's a good thought!

If you don't preach in my schools, I won't think in your churches.

2

Of course it is. The religious indoctrination of children should be a criminal offense.

I agree we need to make people aware of the rights children have to be educated fairly

@RobH86 Then you're going to have parents screaming at the top of their lungs about how it's their right to "educate" their children any way they see fit.

@KKGator That is exactly what this debate is about

The reduction of religion has to come about naturally. You can't force it. There is freedom of religion for a reason. People have to gradually see what's wrong with it. No dictatorship of any kind, please. But when religion promotes beating, torture,and rape--even stealing your money--then it's criminal. It would be great if getting rich off of conning dupes was criminal, but in religion it is not.

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