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Vegan vs non-vegan diet for babies

There's a lot of discussion going on out there if religion-based education is a form of child abuse. I also hear/see discussions where it is stated that vegans feeding their babies and then toddlers and so on vegan diet are abusing their children in that way because they are imposing their will on they child. But isn't it the same with feeding them animal products - isn't that imposing their will on their children? I don't want ro discuss nutrition here. I just don't see any logic in the above argument - the 'imposing one's will on another'?... Isn't everything an imposition on child's will whilst they are growing up and being taught life?! Not sure whether I have managed to make myself clear here... Probably not as clear as I would've liked.

LejaJ 5 Feb 10
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19 comments

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It is not imposed on the children, because the children, are in a situation, that is not allowed, to provide only what benefits them, If the kind of treatment, does not harm them, and it benefits them, I think no problem, And in the world, all the living quarters, are different,Those who blame the parents for what they do with their children, they are the ones who impose .. And I do not think that someone will hurt his child unless he is crazy

belfo Level 6 Sep 28, 2018
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Vegan diet is really possible for babies 🙂

Source:
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All child-rearing is imposing our will on our children while helping them find their own. That goes for diet, intellectual pursuits, what sports we encourage them to participate in, and every other aspect of their lives. Where do you draw the line on what is encouraging good social growth and a healthy mind and body, and what is "abuse"? Who makes those rules? As secular people, we don't religious wingnuts telling us what to do, and likewise, those wingnuts don't want us dictating what is or isn't right.

Nutritionally, I would call forcing a child to be vegan abuse. Children, especially babies, need good quality fats that can't be found in plants, for proper brain and nervous system development. Breast milk provides those things, but unless they are nursing all through childhood rather than just the general practice of the first year or two, then you have a malnourished child who will not likely develop to their fullest potential. However, you said this isn't about nutrition and my mind wandered once I started typing.

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I thought you were really clear actually - but I ma not clear about an answer - I'm vegan but not by choice i have several allergies and have to watch what I eat but I know you can have a balanced vegan diet and so long as the baby thrives ---- I agree with you about all choices are the parents - until the child decides to spit unwanted tastes or textures out again. When I was growing up I wouldnt eat anything that wasnt the same texture all the way through and I wouldn't eat anything that had touched anything else on my plate - gravy was a terrible thought - mushing everythign together - cheese and cucumber not touching was fine I was indulged and have to a certain extent relaxed my childhood rules on food consumption (64 years later)

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Imposing ones will on a child is called raising them. If a parent does not "impose their will" on a child, logically they would be growing up with no guidance at all, and that would not be in the interest of the child.

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Every child must consume food and it’s up to parents to decide how to feed them, within reason. At some point, dietary choices can be abusive. If you feed a small child a diet of 100% fast food, is that abuse? What if you feed a child nothing but bread and water? Failing to provide your child with needed nutrition is neglectful, at least. It is extremely difficult to provide a well-rounded diet to an infant within vegan restrictions. I mean, let’s be honest, it is difficult for an adult to get adequate nutrition from a vegan diet.
Question, does a vegan diet exclude mothers’ breast milk?

Why on earth would a mother not naturally breast feed her baby for reasons of being vegan?

Well I was ASKING the question. Since vegans do not consume “any animal products” it is not a ridiculous wuestion @TerriCity

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The baby is always at the mercy of its parents (and society). All we can do is question law and the way our society works to encourage good practice for parents/teachers and others to educate our young in the best way possible. The best way possible is obviously subjective, and this involves us looking at argument and challenging ideas to see which ideas are best

@LejaJ This is a tough issue to deal with. On the point of eating meat (and dairy), I must admit that I do this but feel as though it would be more moral not to. If society takes this choice away from me then there is nothing I can do, but whilst the choice is there its so easy to give in to that temptation. With regards to teaching children about their religious heritage, and what that religion is all about, the way in which that is taught is questionable in my opinion. Having said that I also agree with live and let live. If someone said that religious beliefs were banned, I would argue that this would be a dictatorship, and stand up for peoples right to have a belief should they wish to do so, without this belief being detremental to anyone else of course

@LejaJ Agreed

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Assuming you're reasonably sane you raise your children in a way that means they will learn basic right from wrong and be able to fit in and contribute to society as they grow. It's about teaching them how to think not what to think then when they're adults hopefully they can make up their own minds. Are you imposing your will? Yes obviously, otherwise the child would have no instruction or direction, a computers no good unless you load stuff to make it function, but hopefully this 'imposing' is done out of love and doesn't harm or damage but helps them flourish.
Yes there are exceptions, yes there are caveats, but if it isn't done in a malicious way what's the problem.

@LejaJ I see your point and agree. It seems (some) non-vegans only see the choices they made as the norm and refuse to understand a different view.

1

My baby would be completely vegan.
My dog is completely vegan.

@LejaJ
Well of course I feed her. Fresh food everyday, would you like a few recipes ?
What's wrong with fresh rather than a can ?

@LejaJ
You're more than welcome to browse at the different groups, there's a vegan/vegetarian group that I created. 🙂

1

Everything that we do as parents is absolutely imposing our will upon them. We infuse them with our morals, our thought processes, our decision making processes, our religious beliefs, our prejudices, and in general our diets.

The line between something being abuse vs being raised differently is so blurry its hard to see sometimes. I would say that intent matters heavily, but not to the point where the child is endangered. If someone is raising their children on a Vegan diet, more power to them. As long as they know what they are doing, and if their child begins to exhibit signs of malnutrition they fix the issue.

Likewise if someone is raising their children without modern medicine, cool. Personally I think they're an idiot, but its their choice as parents. That being said, if the kid suddenly doubles over from stomach pain and the parents try to pray it away only for it not to work... Well... There better be a real quick hospital trip in store for them.

3

Everybody knows that atheists prefer corn fed and free range babies. Much better texture and exquisite flavor.

If you are comparing babies to cattle, corn fed and free range are sort of opposite from each other. Grass fed as opposed to feed-lot (corn fed) is considered more natural and less cruel to the cattle as grain is not their natural food. Also, like veal, babies that are kept in confinement are more tender than free range. That's why veal was the first type of meat I gave up on my road to vegetarianism.

@TerriCity -- Oh wow! I didn't know any of that stuff. In the meantime, I prefer my steaks medium rare.

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as long as the mother does not refuse her breast out of vegan principle. it's what babies cry for, no need for indoctrination.

Vegans are against the use of OTHER animals' bodies, not their own.

5

You all know vegans breastfeed, right?

So natural I can't understand how there is a formula market

@Unicus Because not all women are able to breastfeed. Due to medical complications etc..

Yes, for medical reasons, and also for whatever other reasons. While I agree that breast milk is the perfect food for infants, there are a range of reasons why it’s not a good option for everyone. Mothers sadly die in childbirth, babies are adopted, mothers don’t produce adequate milk and sometimes people decide for their own reasons that breastfeeding isn’t right for them.
This is something I feel the need to say because like the issue of abortion, it is easy to defend on principles of medical necessity, and that is an important point. However, that argument alone fails to acknowledge the right of women to make decisions about themselves, their families, their bodies without having to provide a reason that others deem “good enough.” @RavenCT

@A2Jennifer My Grand Niece needed specialized formula because she was born very prematurely. Her Mom went through the whole 9 yards to get her milk production up - but the baby could not tolerate it. - Thank goodness for options!
And I don't aim to ever blame a women for choosing to use formula.

Also thank goodness that very special formula was covered by insurance!

1

BTW, CPS means Child Protective Services.

Of course you have to impose your will on a child until that child can make their own decisions. Since it is your responsibility to care for them, you need to make sure they are getting all of the nutritional elements they need to be healthy. I have heard that is difficult to do that in childhood with a plant based diet only. Some children have died due to unintentional malnourishment. That is the basis of the argument. That is why it is important. Imposing a vegan diet might kill them.

[broadly.vice.com]

3

I don't care much about the imposing-one's-will argument, but I don't know whether a vegan diet is healthy for infants. Human breast milk is the food of babies — it's what we relied on for development for all of mammalian history until very recently — and regardless of what we think we know about diet and nutrition there's so much that's still a mystery about how the body uses nutrients and if/why some things are healthy and others aren't and what the long-term effects of diet are. I'd have no problem with transitioning from breast milk to a plant-based diet as the baby is weaned, though. For me it's not about some moral dilemma about using animals for food, but only about what's healthy for the child.

Vegans breastfeed.

@Lysistrata Do they consider it to be a vegan diet for the infant, though? They might, I'm unsure, but if I were a vegan I wouldn't consider human breast milk to be a dietary option because it's the product of a mammal rather that derived from plants.

.... Yes, Vegans breastfeed. The whole movement is about not using any other animal products. They are fine with using their own... Just because some Vegans are batshit insane doesn't mean the majority of them are.

@resserts Ethical veganism is about not exploiting other animals.

@Lysistrata @ThereisnoDog @LejaJ I guess it feels subjective to me because some vegans are such for ethical reasons, but others for health reasons. I'm on a strict whole, unprocessed, plant-based diet right now, and it's entirely for the health benefits. So I suppose I forget that there are people who are less concerned with health than with ethics in adopting the diet.

@resserts Yes. "Vegan" technically refers to an ethical stance, but it's become a catch-all. I have a child who does it for health and I do it for all three reasons. I just say vegan because it's faster.

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You got it: a child's will is not sufficient for its own life; caregivers must "impose". Eat your vegetables, do your homework, go to bed. Hard to say exactly where the line is when the "imposition" becomes inappropriate. When the child's physical, mental, emotional, or social health is demonstrably harmed, that's definitely out of bounds. Short of that, there's a gray zone where people are going to disagree.

Example: my cousin, 12 years old. Only child of an older, single mom, with deeply involved grandparents. Mom and grandparents answer questions for him, do things for him--ALL. THE. TIME. The poor kid's hesitant and unsure when called upon to act or think independently. I'm appalled by this; I think they're doing great harm to his psychosocial development potential. But I'm not going to call CPS; no objective measure is going to register any demonstrable "harm": by all accounts he's a bright, well-behaved, spoiled, and sheltered young man. Nothing to squawk about. But I seethe.

You're comparing a vegan diet to emotional abuse?

@Lysistrata Nope. Just using an example from my life to illustrate the gray area of "imposing will" where people can disagree. Multiple professional medical organizations have gone on record as saying "appropriately planned vegan diet can be appropriate to all stages of life, including pregnancy, nursing, infants, and children" and that's good enough for me. It's the "appropriately planned" part that people gloss over.

I saw "I don't want to discuss nutrition here" and took my comment in another direction for that reason. I focused on the "imposing will" part specifically, and did not mention nutrition (except for "eat your vegetables" which is common parlance for "parents making kid do stuff kid doesn't want to do" ). I'm curious as to how you picked up a comparison between veganism and emotional abuse...

4

My kids did not eat peas or lima beans at my house because I loathe them. Their father's parents introduced my kids to those veggies. Was that child abuse? Well, I think so 🙂 but not really. I fed my kids how I fed myself. As a parent you HAVE to impose your will on your child it is called parenting. This is why we have so many kids with no manners running around because the parents are afraid of crushing junior. Kids are resilient, they survive and hopefully have had the shit knocked out of them and grow up to be responsible adults.

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I for one exceptionally understood you. Now share with me how I can initiate a conversation with a hot smiling lady? Will you help?

@LejaJ technically,am kidding

4

You are correct. Perhaps parents should not feed children until they are old enough to decide for themselves.
So are vaccines an act of imposing your will on children, either way?
Honestly, I think it is a matter of nutrition. If parents are feeding their kids a healthy, complete diet, it's nobody else's business. Most parents feed children the food they like; whether they are vegan or not, if Mom and Dad dislike brown rice, Junior is probably not going to eat brown rice.

JimG Level 8 Feb 10, 2018
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