Agnostic.com

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Fellow agnostics, how do you feel about believers joining?

This is likely contentious, but it needs to be asked. As this is a site "...promoting universal truths and peaceful life without religion" how do you feel about people of faith joining here?

I'm no shrinking violet and I don't need the sort of safe space that so many people believe they do now, but I also don't want to have to engage with people who have been inculcated into some form of unscientific, simple-minded view of the natural world.

I joined in the belief (cough) that this was an exclusive club where I could escape from these folk - but now I find they are joining - with a view to what, I don't know although my hackles are raised.

Not only is this sort of thing wasteful of resources, but if they are here to try to convert or preach at us, that's likely to result in a dissemination to all-out flame wars in a post or two.

I didn't think this was a site to convert people from one way of thinking to another (that sort of thing is nigh-on impossible by the time we're in our 20s anyway.)

I ask because I'm interested what my fellow angostic/athiests think.

I've noted that "theists" tend to butt in to these conversations with their ignorance and that's what I came here to avoid.

I'm getting too old to argue.

Draco 6 Sep 25
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583 comments (151 - 175)

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6

I'm new to this. I found this conversation interesting. I'm agnostic and was looking for other free thinking people. My husband is Catholic. He asked about joining the site when I told him about it. After all, I sometimes go to church with him. He stops people dead in their tracks when they suggest I should join their church. He knows I wouldn't be comfortable with that and has my back that I'm just fine spiritually the way I am. He was curious to check out this group. I told him that I didn't think he'd be welcome sadly as people are using this as a way to get away from the judgement. He didn't know, before meeting me, that the secular world felt that way about Christians. That info made him reflect. I don't want to make the same mistakes towards the religious.

Tough love choices....rapist priests there and xian trolls here...make nice everyone

6

I'm not really good at tolerating other people's intolerance

I love a believer....one of the ways that defines our love is to avoid politics that defines my American Atheist leadership.....accordingly she is not curious about agnostic.com and would be instantly annoyed to say the least by frank candid Atheism here.....any believer here who does not instantly react to our total disagreements with faiths is hiding their agenda for their beliefs.....unless a believer is upfront and troubled about the absurdity and irrationality about their religion, agnostic DOT COM is hostile territory they are invading and spying upon us MINIMUM and likely to post snide remarks defining their complete lack of critical thinking that is the essence of Atheism and our fight for freedom FROM THEOCRACY which is their criminal agenda they bring into our community here

And that lasted only 45 days....belief is a cancer in the brain that blinds normal thoughts extraneous to functioning intimate family relationships....loving loyalties are bounded if not betrayed by beliefs of pure stupidity....eventually we Atheists are resented and feared when we love believers

6

Why not, then we can have a bit of fun with them and just maybe ( that's a very BIG JUST MAYBE btw, de-religify a few as well.

6

Fodder for my snarkiness! Come on down!

6

I feel that Catholic priests should be put to death. Anyone else think they deserve this?

No ....rapist priests should be confined, organs harvested, blood transfused, experimental Guinea Pigs and wealth confiscated to pay their victims....help heal our species not given a quick trip to their alleged purgatory

I think that nobody should be put to death but that all people should answer to the law equally, whether you have the shield of religious power or political power or financial power should never be a reason to get out of jail free.

6

I think there is common ground. MY own reading of existentialist philosophy well as The Bible has lead me to want to throw in with the Gnostics. The Gnostics hold to a an Early Christian amalgamation Juadic, Christian, Buddhist and Zoroastrian philosophies that were products of the first era of multiculturalism in ancient times. The existentialists share many views with these precept, most particularly Karl Jung who held that we have to align our beliefs (Freud's "id" with our rational minds to maintain our integrity. As a retired scientist I agree that the scientific method of using evidence and reason is the only way to communicate and connect with others. All I cn do is capitulate to someone else's beliefs. We have to accept that we all have beliefs even though we cannot compel others to hold the same beliefs. My reading of history is that organized religions have disconnected from their original beliefs by way of the IMperial Model (Catholicism) o the the BUsines Model(Protestants). I have come to the conlclusion that my own disconnection form organized religion is sourced in these disconnections. There are movement afoot, mostly in Catholicism, to reconnect with the original teachings. Reform Judaism seeks to do the same by reconnecting to the original Old Testament. The Gnostics seem to cruise in this spiritual borderland.
I have happend upin the Nag Hammadi scriptures, that were banned as heretical in ancient imes. These are the translations of the Dead Sea Scrolls. As these translations wer e published, scholars in Africa, Germany and France recognized the ideas. As irturns out, rather than being destroyed, they were squirreld awya in multiple locations to preserve them. Theie views are iconoclastic and tightly focussed on personal enlightment. They are antitheticl to organizing a powerful church, and so were condemnd as heresy. It is notable that the research and preservation oft this material has fallen mostly on thr Jung INstitute and some theological programs such as Princeton University. As this group's name includes Agnostics, there is room here. Personally, based on my own experiences, it is impossible for me to throw into Atheism, though I am interested in Atheistic constructs.

6

It’s called Agnostic.com, not AtheistsOnly.com.

I’m so fucking tired of this conversation (this is not the first time in the last year and a half).
We have kicked rude nonbelievers out, and we have polite believers as members.

How about we quit being so prejudice?

6

I generally tend to make an effort to be civil to others, especially on an equal playing field, but as far as I'm concerned, any theist who intrudes upon agnostic/atheist turf is fair game.

Deb57 Level 8 Dec 29, 2018
6

I'm against censorship, but I'd really prefer that theists didn't join this site. Not sure why they'd want to other than to troll non-believers. I won't engage with them here in any kind of productive way.

Deb57 Level 8 Dec 29, 2018

@TheTruthIsTrue If it's an imaginary cliff that only you can see, then yeah, I'd prefer not hearing about it.

@Deb57 That answer is golden!

@TheTruthIsTrue I think she'd like some proof of the cliff's existence before taking your word for it...

@TheTruthIsTrue, I would be annoyed by your insistence that there is a cliff, when I can see that there is not. "Warning" people of danger that you cannot prove exists is not, by any stretch, a noble act.

6

Most are very adamant about their beliefs and get very heated and argumentative, I have seen this time and time again in facebook and other areas, while am open to it, I also firmly advise caution.

6

It depends. I'd always chat with seekers. But not with those who wish to proselytize or covert.

6

I don't like the idea. I joined because the site advertised as a place for non-believers to be away from all that. I've seen a couple recent posts, such as the "how do you recognize design" question, that just make me feel like I'm going to be subjected to the same things I avoid other sites because of.

IF they are allowed in with blatantly religious posts, I will challenge them ruthlessly. I don't go to their sites to proselytize, if they come to mine I will give them only the respect they give us, and i don't consider preaching to be respectful of the agnostic.com mission statement.

6

Absolutly NOT ! We don't argue in this venue...we debate...we console...we support one another...why screw up a good thing ? Not to mention they would troll the hell out of this site...could you just imagine them in some of the groups ? Somehow I don't think they would fit in to Sexual Devients or BDSM or any of the Religious Bashing groups.

Bad idea.

6

I have to wonder why and hope it is not to try to convert us. ?

How can one convert someone who doesn't know anything (agnostic) and is happy in their ignorance?

@rock9361 Well...did you INTEND that comment to be rude? Or was it an accident? Atheists and agnostics are the most intelligent people I know...much more, in fact, than any ''believer" I know.

@rock9361. Lmao.. Oh here we go.. See now this could get interesting.. Oh boy.. rubbing hands together.. Ok.. Does it REALLY make us "ignorant", to KNOW that we are ignorant and so in taking the blinders off, to open ours eyes and our minds to always seek KNOWledge and a higher level of understanding in our OWN minds.. Or does it make YOU more ignorant to just believe in SOMEBODY ELSES TRUTH, which is probably NOT TRUTH AT ALL, which TRULY LEAVES YOU UNKNOWING.. Which is true epitome of IGNORANCE.. So see.. Lmao

My feeling about believers is akin to multiple personalities. ...they are prone to hatred bigotry and violence if they hear or read some of our goring their sacred cows.....no matter how much they claim to be open minded or live&let live our Atheist phraseology or memes are bound to make them feel offended or condescendingly put down. ...like children feeling lied to about Santa Claus

6

It's very simple if they become annoying block them if everyone blocks them they're gone

That's the best bet

6

I’m a theist. A believer. I’m here to learn and expose myself to another point of view. I like it here. Ive had many wonderful conversations, some religious, some not.

I only interject my beliefs when I am specifically asked or when I feel like it’s pertinent to the topic being discussed, however never in a contentious or judge mental way. Simply to share my opinion.

I have no intention to try to “convert” anyone or insult or judge or be otherwise rude or inappropriate. This is not the place and I know that.

Then welcome. Knowing your viewpoint isn't as respected here as it is elsewhere... What, exactly, do you think you might learn? If I sound suspicious, it's because I am. I've seen a lot of underhanded ways of people trying to get into my head, so that they can learn how I think, why I think it. So they can then 'fix' me. If you are not one of those, you MAY actually learn something... That's up to you and you alone. There are a lot of teachers in our ranks, I promise you. However, the vast majority won't try to kill your faith. They won't respect it, but they won't come after you to kill it either. Some may be more militant... as I have noted elsewhere, we have been hunted and persecuted. When we find one place we don't have to pay lip service to the religious, we can be a bit jealous to protect it from those hunters. I get that. And I am what I would call a moderate. I don't care that you believe.I don't care WHAT you believe. You are free to be wrong. Just let me be 'wrong' too. Do not say it is because you love me. No you don't. You don't know me. (I do not men you in the personal, but in the general) That's your deal. Just leave me out of it, and we can agree to disagree. We can still agree to basics, like killing puppies is bad. Stealing is bad. Obeying stop signs good. That's how I live. Few people in my real life know I am an a-theist. I have to hide my real self. And I bet there are a LOT of butts in the pews on any given Sunday morning who are what I call Insurance believers... They don't, really, but say better safe than sorry. Like they could fool God? Really? But they do. They go through the motions... pretending. I won't. As a kid, I was taught that being an atheist was akin to devil worship. I was evil if I didn't toe the line, and the angry vengeful god would hurl me to hell. Even my father's Unitarian church didn't protect me completely from their barbs. So forgive... it's so christian, is it not? If we are a little suspicious of your motives. I'm willing to give the benefit of doubt. For now. If you really are here to learn, then you have doubts. You would HAVE to have... So, sarcastic as it must sound by now, welcome. You were warned! If we corrupt you... you were already broken.

Well, you seem respectful and open minded so I can say welcome, but I don’t believe there are many belivers who are like you. Thanks for breaking the stereotype.

Welcome. Years ago I (as a Christian) attended witchcraft cult meetings for months because I was curious. Met some really nice open people. Never became a witch but they earned my respect with openness and acceptance. Atheist now, still always curious.

Feel free to ask anything, I have no secrets.

6

We'd only be leaving ourselves open to propaganda, rhetoric and all the b.s. that goes with that. Think double agent and see where your head goes... probably not the greatest idea to let them in here and make order out of our lovely chaos.

6

Here's the thing: If a "Theist" or even more importantly an "Evangelical" bring beliefs into this forum, here's my message to that person:

Put on your big girl or big boy pants when you come here. Don't cry, whine, bleed or worse - prosthelytize - on this forum. Put up or shut up. Make an intellectual case or keep your mouth shut. If you fee a need to claim victim status, you'll get the mental heat you deserve.

Frankly, I doubt that any believer would have the guts to enter a conversation where the playing field isn't tilted in their direction. As a whole, especially evangelicals are gutless wonders who stay in their sheep pens.

So, bottom line - there's not much chance anyone who has been skating along with a loose grip on rigorous intellectual discourse will even be interested in being here.

The delusional believers (redundant) do obsess over us Atheists and I DEMAND THEY CONDEMN their bibles which brands all of us Atheists as "fools" and "reprobates" on the pages of their genocidal misogynistic pro-violent abortion manuals....2nd Kings 15:16 Amos 1:13 Hosea 13:16 and 2nd Kings 8:12 ....: " RIP open the bellies of pregnant women...." ALL SAMARIAN women so violently aborted and their "virgin" sisters "kept alive for yourselves." Jehovah rewards his holy warriours with rape trophies

6

I don’t have issues with people having faith. In my opinion, religion is just a way to feel good about death and the afterlife.

Now, with that being said, I do have an issue with people that are too religious to the point of joining this site and trying to convert. But, I think the best way to handle them is to keep our emotions in check and report them without engaging them. Which is why I believe there was a “level” system that was placed. So that a new member can’t spam new accounts and keep on harassing members that don’t agree with their point of view.

In summary, don’t engage people that are obviously trying to push religion on you. Report their accounts and posts and let the admins handle it.

Leo716 Level 6 July 24, 2018
6

I don't mind. They are likely curious, so I'm happy to stimulate that curiosity. If they are here to preach, then they'll have better luck getting the earth to rotate the opposite direction.

dokala Level 7 July 20, 2018
6

If they are here to see how the other half lives, and to challenge their own believe to see if they hold up, then more power to them. But if they are here to proselytize in any manner, shape, or form, then rhey can get the f**k out of here and back to christian mingle or whatever ignorant rock they crawled out from under and leave us heathens to or unholy ways.

A men! Or several women.

6

I really could care less as long as they are not abusing. they are free to believe what they believe. that includes everyone not only the believers. whatever helps them stay on top of the water instead of sinking is okay. because not everyone can handle a lot of truth we all cope in our own way. everyone has their own way of coping with this crazy world. the part is calling anyone crazy, dellusional, etc... whatever words that our chosen for people who do not believe what you believe. in a way you think about it.. we are all believers of something. like some believe faithfully that there is no god or you believe faithfully in the god of science and science knows all. the list goes on. the whole point is if you treat people wrong you are no better than a horrifying judgmental "believers". you are going down that same road. In reality no one knows everything we are just still starting to understand this world. there is still a lot to be discovered and it is a endless argument of who is wrong or right.

yaya87 Level 5 July 13, 2018
6

I'm not interested in religion. I certainly don't want intimacy with anyone who is. If I see religious people showing up on my feed, I'll just block them. If it gets to the point where there are tons of them, I'll just close my account.

NerdyB Level 4 June 25, 2018

🙂 i love that: i'm not interested in religion - it's exactly why i'm here. welcome.

I block most males because I'm not interested in intimacy with them, believers or Atheists, I'm here for love. ...not a 3 way with geebush geehobah ghosthole females

6

My point is that I don't want to hear their crap. Don't waste my time. Believers joining is a waste of internet.

@Lonely, if someone feels offended by your opinion, e.g. "the most stupid song", it certainly is that person who has issues with respect of other opinions. tell them that - &, please, stay a while. we want outspoken people here 🙂

@Lonely I just block those people. I'm not here to argue with theists, or to take abuse or disrespect from anyone. I've probably blocked 15 people; some just because they annoy me. I don't give a f*** what they have to say.

@Lonely Stay! We need a diversity of opinions.

6

I hate dogma and you will not hear me speak of God or Atheism. This is because I am an activist for humanity. That means, Religion, Belief Systems, Racism, Bigotry are not a consideration with me. Humanity has the right to choose their belief system and gender preference. I am interested in helping all humanity in living a much better life, not just a chosen few. I will not defend any belief system. I do not go to church. I accept no dogmatic religion or GOD. I consider myself a spiritual person, which leaves much leeway to think about. I fight for the life of this planet, the animals, domestic and wild, the water, the air, all that humanity needs to live a happy life. I am not to be feared and I remain neutral in belief because of my activism. I will not answer any more about this. I consider all free and welcome regardless of who or what they are. I am committed to my work, so I will hassle no one, except do not hate me for I fight for the rights and decency of all of you.

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