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How much should teachers make?

I recently overhead a conversation about how school teachers don't make enough money. I've heard countless conversations making a similar claim. What I've never heard is someone stating just how much a teacher should make. I'm curious, what salary do you think is enough?

ScubaWags 7 Mar 3
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5

The conversation I have heard many times here in Michigan is that teachers "...make too much money...", and have "...all Summer off." Those who make such statements are pretty much ignorant of the reality of the situation. In my school district in Michigan, a starting teacher had to have a bachelor's degree with teacher certification. Then they had to go on (in the Summer and/or nights), and get an additional minimum of 18 semester hours or attain their master's degree. The first 9 hours was not reimbursed by the district...it comes out of the teacher's pocket. When it comes to, "all Summer off", typically the starting date for teachers in our district was August 14-15 for "teacher's work days" through June 10 or so (snow days added), for the school year...about two months off...if they are not in grad school. When It comes to pay grades, consideration should be given to, amount of education, some get more than a master's... meaning continuing on in grad school to get an education specialist's degree or a doctorate, or other grad school classes. Also in our district, there were pay steps relative to how many years they had been teaching in the district. Therefore, what would be a fair wage for a person who typically has a master's degree or more, and has been a teacher for an average of more than ten years? More than a bar tender? I found it interesting that the lower a person's education level the more likely they were to consider teacher's to be overpaid.

Your comment is excellent in that it describes what I hear down here in Ohio, and what a niece & nephew who are secondary education teachers in Georgia tell me.

@MissKathleen What became painfully obvious to me when I first became a teacher (Michigan), was that I was not in control of the education system...the administrators were. I had no control over the students...they administrators and parents had empowered children with the "rights" of adults and we (teachers), ended up with no control over the classroom...the "students" did want they wanted with impunity. If a student called me a @#$%^**, I knew he/she would still be there the next day. The only people subject to discipline were the teachers. Therefore, it was not my fault that "...a high percentage of students are (were) not being educated.", and I should not be penalized financially for the failure of the system.
What the schools system had when Michigan was the "Education state" was discipline. Now "they" (the students), have "rights"...just ask them.

@MissKathleen I did. As did many more. Michigan now has a shortage of teachers. When I went into privet industry, I found that several of my new colleges had been teachers at one time and left the field. No other profession has so many that have left that profession.

5

In an effort to piss off all you sports fans, I believe that a teacher should make more than ANY professional athlete. Shit they are just playing a game.

Do you propose raising the pay for teachers to 7 figures, or lowering the pay of sports players to 5 figures?

@ScubaWags While it was a little tongue-in-cheek, I think most teachers are underpaid. If they were paid for all the hours they worked, by the hour, they'd be almost as expensive. A very serious related issue is the fact that, except for private schools, public schools are 'paid' by community real estate taxes. This injects a big imbalance because poorer communities have just as many children (often in greater need) but have a lower real estate base. I'm retired now but taught Elementary school in an impoverished district so I know what I'm saying. These kids were at an unfair disadvantage just because of where they lived.

@ScubaWags Both

They're playing a game that brings their corporations and bosses BILLIONS of dollars though, and they are DIRECTLY responsible for bringing in that money based on their skill level. That's why they have agents that negotiate contracts based on that skill and "draw". Comparing athletes and entertainers to teachers is apples an oranges and kind of ridiculous. Pay doesn't go by importance to society, sadly, but it's the real world. Everyone also thinks the athletes life is simple. Go play a game and get paid. You don't see the 15-20 hour days they put in for exercising, practicing, traveling, studying, and being away from their families, and there is more to it than even that. Athletes probably work harder than anyone. The bottom line is that sports are a for profit enterprise and the pay is commensurate with the draw that players have based on their skill and ability to bring people to the games and buy their merchandise. Not saying it's fair, but like I said it's the real world.

4

Depending on local cost of living, but I’d say 6 figures, easy. Yes, I’m being serious. We should hold them in the same regard we hold doctors and others who contribute greatly to society.

@Antidronefreeman all teachers. And if they suck, we should be able to fire them. It actually is pretty easy to do in I think most of the country.

@Antidronefreeman Before you assume that "bad teachers" are the problem become one and find out what it is really all about.

0

In UK its considered terribly bad form to discuss salary.

In the U.S., the pay of public employees is public record.

That is true in the United States as well, if you are talking one individual to another. Having a general discussion about salary for a group is not though.

@OHJim It is here too.

2

That's actually a very difficult question for one simple reason....if you make one dollar then you will always want one more. It will never be enough money wise. On the other hand, teaching should be a privilege for those who feel the calling, then money takes a different perspective. I think we all at least can agree that no one would make a fortune by just teaching, even when it is a fundamentally important job for society.

In what other profession is a "calling" the determinant factor in their compensation? And, just how would a person be determined to have a "calling"?

@dahermit Every activity has its own calling and I don't think we know why some click with certain individuals and not others. If the calling is to make money then teaching is not the best option

1

In any given area, qualified teachers' pay should be on a par with that of registered nurses.

@Larry-new Why then, are teachers paid less than registered nurses?
[work.chron.com]

2

I started teaching in 2002, and after a previous 4 year degree in my subject area, and nearly two years on top of that for teacher ed, I earned less than I was making as a grocery store assistant manager in 1999. Even worse, as a teacher we got paid each month, so I had no income at all until the end of September. I had to get a $2000 loan from my parents to cover me for the month, and paid it back $200 a month for that year...which put me BELOW what I was making at the grocery store. (And on top of all of that, our contract is for 9 months work, but our PAY is split into 12 equal monthly payments...so that after one month's work--putting in 1/9th of my year's work--, I got paid 1/12 of my salary. People still think we get paid for doing nothing during the summer, when in fact we are simply getting the rest of our pay for work we already did. This isn't such a big deal after 15 years...but for first year people, it's a kick in the gut and a red flag that maybe you should have picked a different career.)

I now have nearly 7 years of college, 15 years experience, and am approaching what I should have been paid to start all those years ago.

One good thing is that I learned to live on a low income and saved everything else for fear of being trapped financially. My investment income last year eclipsed my salary by quite a lot (almost double), and now I'm feeling guilty for considering quiting teaching. I know there is no one to replace me. Last year they hired a guy who taught one year of 5th grade, with no high school certificate, and a journalism degree. They gave him honors classes his first year for some reason, and wanted the rest of us to help him get up to speed (as if it was that simple). I'd been teaching 13 years, with a professional certificate, a degree in my subject, a 3.9 post grad GPA, and a 4 year college honors program under my belt before they even suggested I teach honors.

I always knew I was overqualified and undervalued, but reality has kind of slapped me in the face last year and this year. (We also almost went on strike at the beginning of the year because the money the state set aside for our salaries suddenly was being funneled elsewhere. Fortunately we got our money...but not before the district told us to have our room keys ready to turn over because subs would be replacing us. I knew they were bluffing then! They don't have enough subs during the school year to cover sick days, much less cover every single teacher! Besides, the subs were on our side anyway.)

I am thankful there are people like you who work so hard to educate our children and grand children. I only wish teachers like you were truly compensated and appreciated for all the good you do for society!!!

1

The average teacher makes around $55,000. This is one of those questions that doesn't have a single answer. What you are paid as a teacher is dependent your location and what that district is able to pay. I had lived in Chicago, and I can tell you one of the factors that has been driving people out is property tax. The schools are funded by property tax, and by extension the salary of the teachers. Everytime the teachers go on strike and the CPS caves in. You can guarantee that the property tax will go up. This is one of the many reasons why Chicago is broke and why more people leave than come in.

KenWG Level 3 Mar 3, 2019

I think schools should be entirely federally funded with variations only to account for variations in certain local expenses. I can’t see any other way to counter the massive funding and quality imbalance between schools throughout the country.

1

Lots more than they are getting. You and teachers are responsible for this child's welfare.

But how much? You aren’t saying anything more than the countless conversations that the OP heard over the years.

7

Good point. How's this for a starting point on the discussion...?

1

how could anyone say that without knowing where the teacher lived. the cost of living is different from place to place. so whatever is a living wage at the VERY least, and if we value teachers as we should, we shouldn't even stick to the minimum.

g

3

Ask a teacher how much they should make. they should determine their worth, not someone else.

1

I read all the comments and have something to add. Not only do we have to consider what they do and how much education they need to do what they do we should also consider that most teachers, like anyone else who has attended college, have student loans. Does anyone think it is ridiculous that most people have to give up so much money in student loans? I think education should be based on aptitude and achievement. So many people go to college, study a subject as a major, and never get a job in their field so they decide to go for a teaching certificate. Many hate teaching but what else do you do with a history degree? So few go on to write books or curate museums or lead historical trips. So, there is allot to consider in our education system and not just salary.

0

As much as lawyers

Orbit Level 7 Mar 3, 2019
0

There are to many variables involved ,what part of the country ,private or public school etc.Where I live in Queens NY the average salary for a civil service New York City high school teacher is $122.131 an hour not including a very adequate pension ,sick leave and benefits.

0

For sure.

0

The question isn't how much should they make but how much do their parents think their children are worth? Instead of taxing property owners, schools should send parents bills for each child and charge them. After all, they get far more tax breaks than childfree people....so, they can certainly afford to pay for the schooling too..

and let the butthurt begin....

1

I think the best solution for the whole problem of income equality among ALL Americans especially considering the current rise of automation is a guaranteed income first to establish a baseline for everyone to survive on. From there specific jobs can be paid based on market forces etc. In the case of teachers I think they should at least be guaranteed the median income based on their location. I also think that income should be spread through out the year so they in the summer continue to draw a salary. Of course I also think we should end the huge summer vacation tradition in America and extend the school year throughout the year but add more week to two week vacations. Especially in urban areas. I find the idea in America of noble suffering to be puritan BS. The fact that we basically take advantage of those among us who serve whether they be teachers, nurses, service industry workers while we are fine spending billions on pointless military bloat (How many times do we need to be able to destroy the world with nukes before we have enough?) is beyond me. My mom was a teacher for 40+ years before she retired and NEVER made above the median income even though she shaped generations of young people with a love of history and strong background in critical thinking. The fact that she was never complained does not discount the injustice of her effort versus the excess of the rich and those who make millions playing a game whether on the field or in the board room or playing the stock market.

Quarm Level 6 Mar 3, 2019
0

I think your question is a great one. This is a very difficult thing to answer.
I'd re-phrase your question as:
How much does my community need to spend on our public education system to produce well educated graduates of our high schools?

6

It's not just about what they make but in many areas of the country, teachers are coming out of their own pockets for supplies and teaching aids for their students.

1

I have no clue. I’ll go with, whatever the market will bear.

Though, seeing as you asked for a specific number, how about $40k to $100k. There are too many variables and ‘teacher’ is too vague to give an exact number.

1

It should be high enough to make it a very competitive field. Our best minds should be working to get into the teaching profession. The less you pay, the lower quality people you will get to teach our youth, and if you look at the comments on an article on say climate change on Facebook, you'll see what's happening in our country. I have no doubt that this country can go backward very quickly, if we don't have a decent system in place to educate our children.
Teaching is one of our most important professions, and it should be treated that way.

1

They have a min 4 years of higher education. Their yearly salary should reflect that. Then they have to be tested for teacher credentials more pay because do you want your children being taught by someone who feels they are not paid their worth. Teachers are those teaching our kids to learning about life out side of the home.

1

I would think it depends on the cost of living in the state. For the amount of training and continuing education required, teachers should make as much as the average skilled profession in the state. So for Arkansas, that would be about $45-50,000 starting salary. Those with a Master's should make more. As it stands, most K-12 schools start their teachers out at $30-35,000. IMO, higher salaries will attract "better" people to go into teaching as a profession. There would be more competition for teaching jobs, which means schools could be picky about the quality of teachers they hire.

2

I think teachers should be one of the highest earners in the society along with soldiers and health professionals.

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