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As of now I'm Agnostic. Wondering if I should fully convert to Atheism. Thoughts? Or facts please? Thanks in advance.

AtheistLJ 5 Mar 1
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Possible to be both. I've copied this from a previous comment I made on another post:

It's a video comment of a YouTuber fan, Rationality Rules, to David Mitchell (a well known Comedian) who claims to be Agnostic but not Atheist. Mitchell explains that it is more rational to be Agnostic because we could never know for certain.

Rationality Rules, explains that: "...Theism and Atheism address what you believe. Gnosticism and Agnosticism address what you assert to know...."

He makes an example addressing Mitchell directly: "...If I ask you if you believe in a god, and your answer is 'no', then you're an Atheist. And if you answered 'I don't know', then you haven't answered the question. Either you believe or do not believe. That is, either you're a theist or an atheist. And how certain you are in your belief, that is: how Gnostic or Agnostic you are, is a completely different question. And so since you don't believe in a god or gods, you are an Atheist..."

Jump to 4m 25s of this video.

I can be any of these:
a: a non-believer because there's no proof yet of existence of a god - an Agnostic Atheist
b: a non-believer because I know there's no proof - a Gnostic Atheist
c: a believer because there's no proof yet of non-existence of a god - an Agnostic Theist
d: a believer because I know there's proof of a god. (I hear his voice every morning.) - a Gnostic Theist

Theism/atheism is an answer to "Do you believe?" And Gnosticism/Agnosticism is an answer to "How certain are you of that belief?"

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No conversion needed. at this point you question the possibility that there is a god. be comfotable that you have taken that step. later you may decide that the whole idea of god is a crock which is fine. enjoy the joy and calm that you have found in deciding that the idea is in question.

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There is no "should". Some time with research, and closely examining your own feelings might help you find the right path for YOU. No requirement to "follow the crowd" - too much of that already !

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The hard truth is that there is an awful lot of prejudice against atheism should you choose to go down that path. If you decide to, you must be able to articulate clearly and defend yourself against the huge amount of ignorance surrounding all religion. That being said, there is a clarity in shedding superstition and embracing science and empirical data. The universe (In my opinion) becomes more awe inspiring and just beautiful. Good luck on your journey!🙂

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I grew up in an a Athiest family and never knew the hardship of leaving a religion. I sympathize with how you feel and bid you welcome.

Gohan Level 7 Mar 1, 2018
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Considering that all religions are man made, you could definitely become an atheist. That said, I would continue to do research and explore what is going on inside you. Look at the factors that are causing your doubts. Also look at why you have not taken that final step and become an atheist. Perhaps the old fears of retribution by an angry god could still be there.

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Logically, atheism is really untennable. agnosticism makes more sense to me

I think you might be confusing antitheism with atheism.

Only if you view atheists as close minded and unwilling to accept new evidence to change their minds if warranted. Atheism is logical.

I don’t think so. @Sheitelhau

@Gatovicolo are you saying that you're a theist then? Agnosticism and atheism are not mutually exclusive. There are agnostic theists and agnostic atheists. Atheism-theism is a matter of belief and agnosticism-gnosticism is a matter of certainty.

Atheism is a matter of certainty without proof while agnosticism is the acknowledgement of the impossibility of proof. @Sheitelhau

@Gatovicolo No, you're simply wrong, even down to the etymology of the word.

In this variation of the word, the prefix "a-" means "without or opposite," with the distinction being "or" from the prefix "anti-." For example, "asocial" refers to an indifference or aversion to social activity, whereas "antisocial" refers solely to aversion to social activity.

Furthermore, the term originated as a designation of those that did not follow the popular religion of Greece, later applied by the Romans to the growing Christian communities.

Your definition of atheism also ignores the ideas of "positive" and "negative" atheism, with the positive claiming certainty and the negative claiming uncertainty.

If you have no foundation for your asserted definition, I'd suggest you check out the work the work of one of the many atheistic speakers of our day. Richard Dawkins is a good example of a reputable agnostic atheist, and I think there's a lot for anyone to gain from his work. The Atheist Experience is a favorite of mine, and they have quite a few episodes archived on YouTube.

Not really. @Sheitelhau

@Gatovicolo Haha, alright then

Given I didn’t define anything, your assertion has no base. I suggest you look into the Oxford dictionary of philosophy rather than you-tube to get your information, but that’s just me. You could also just read the appropriate sections of Wikipedia, they parallel the Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy, but Wikipedia has a pretty bad reputation. Maybe you could read the appropriate sections of a History of Modern Philosophy. @Sheitelhau

"Atheism is a matter of certainty without proof while agnosticism is the acknowledgement of the impossibility of proof." That looks like a basic definition to me.

I did as you said and looked through a History of Modern Philosophy, and from the wording of the text, the author seems to have a negative bias toward atheism. The vast majority of it's mentions are needlessly derogatory in the context of the passages they come from.

Looking through the Cambridge Dictionary of Philosophy, Atheism is not referred to as anything claiming certainty that god doesn't exist but the mere belief that he doesn't exist. It even begins the passage saying that the common usage of the term is not inconsistent with agnosticism. It says "A stricter sense denotes a belief that there is no God," which is consistent with the idea of strong and weak atheism.

I think there's more to these concepts than what you've decided on. Agnosticism does not preclude the belief or disbelief in god.

Having been raised and educated in the Catholic Church, I can say that it asserts in it's dogma that there is no way to be certain of anything regarding their god (the sacred mysteries), even his existence, but that doesn't stop them from believing in that god. In this way they are dogmatically agnostic theists. Although, a priest of Catholicism will most likely preach gnostic theism in his homilies. The latter stance is unsatisfying in its arbitrary nature, and the former simply tries to obfuscate the arbitrary bits.

I would like to say that I'm sorry if I've come off as offensive to you, as I think I might have. My friends say I have no tact when presenting my ideas, and I agree. I hope you can look past this and speak to my points. @Gatovicolo

You’re entitled to your opinion. Have a nice day. @Sheitelhau

@Gatovicolo nah, you miss the point entirely. I don't want my opinion. At any point I have no way of saying that anything at all that I believe is valid. I want to combat my own opinions with the opinions of others, and if my opinions lose it is to my benefit.

Bugger off mate. @sillysketcher

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It isn't a matter of Religion or Atheism. Religion is history for us and has nothing whatsoever to do with an interpretation of the Cosmos. You are free to think and feel and come up with your very own ideas. Just open up and think and live. Deciding on any particular belief with a name only limits you. It makes is easy. Well, it is easy to just live and keep open to what comes to you. Just catch it.

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Make it your own decision. Nothing will be stronger.

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convert....such a word....I don't think atheism has a heiriarchy like catholicism or judaism...so you don't have to get permission...my first thought would be to look at how you see The Question. I think converting is for people who feel they have the answer. So maybe 'converting to atheism' is apt. That's a big maybe....as is everything else.

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There is no time limit on learning. Let it come naturally as you go through your personal journey. Humanity and science is still evolving and discovering new information. You'll get there when you get there. 🙂

Betty Level 8 Mar 1, 2018
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As someone else pointed out, the term "Agnostic" has nothing to do with religion.
You're either an:
Agnostic Atheist--Doesn't believe, but doesn't claim absolutely that there is no God.
Gnostic Atheist--Doesn't believe, and claims there is NO God.
Agnostic Theist--Believes in God, but doesn't claim absolutely that there is a God
Gnostic Theist--Believes in God, and claims there is absolutely a God.

A visual. You’re already one or the other.

Yes, the two words refer to two different things.

I thought the term was first used to address religion. If true then that's it's roots.

Gnostic and agnostic refer to knowledge about whatever subject you’re speaking. Theism and atheism refer to belief. @JeffB

@JeffB I should have worded my statement as: "Not exclusive to religion" as I think the word has evolved from the original reference.

@NothinnXpreVails I'm aware that the word gnosic means knowledge, and this a-gnostic uses the normal rules to mean without knowledge. We are on the same page there. But.... I'm pretty sure no one used the term before Huxley, who used it to refer to religion. If he didn't invite the word, then he is likely responsible for it's appearance in the English language. All I'm saying is that you cannot call it not legitimate usage if that is how it was introduced into the language and used that way for years and still used that way.

@AgnosticLJ I am Agnostic Atheist, as well. That, to me, seems like the most logical position to take at this time.

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Just do what feels right to you. I personally don't see the allure of labelling

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I'd say don't "convert" to atheism for the sake of it. It you come to truly believe there is no supernatural beings that guide us, then in fact you are automatically an atheist. Otherwise, you just make it sound like another form of religion, which it is not.

godef Level 7 Mar 1, 2018
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Convert? How does one go about converting to atheism? Are there rituals? Does it involve eating a baby bbq or danicng naked in a science lab? 😉

Actually, I'm agnostic for a lot of reasons, and very happy to be so. I have atheist friends and get along great with them, but I'm me, and they're them... I would say, "Go where your heart leads you," but instead I'll say, go where you're most comfortable.

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Those words aren't really levels of non-belief. They mean 2 different things. Agnostic means you don't KNOW if there is a god or not. Atheism means you don't BELIEVE there is a god. Therefore I am both, I don't BELIEVE there is a god (atheist), but I can't KNOW for sure if there is one or not (agnostic).

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Check out Fighting God by David Silverman (president of American Atheists)

Marz Level 7 Mar 1, 2018
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When de-converting from christianity the initial decision would not necessarily be to "fully convert to atheism", but rather to change your lifestyle. Meaning, that you make a decision to live your life as if there is no god or at least that the Bible is a worthless document with respects to life and practice. After living life the way you want to for some time you won't need to "decide" to become an atheist, you will realize you are one...

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It is not a matter of converting. It is a simple matter to deciding that you are certain that you do not believe in any god or religion.When you decide that, you are an atheist.

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Follow your heart and don't lable youself.

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No need to convert, do what you want. There is a lot of pretty pointless mental masturbation going on about the differences between agnostic and atheist. Pick a label or just call yourself a non-believer. Anything you choose is ok. You don't need to defend or justify your choice to anyone.

FWIW, I agree with @atheist

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read then read some more and then don't stop reading . all the sciences , dawkins , hitchins and harris . then you will come to a conclusion no conversion neeeded

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I would be interested to know why you have become 'agnostic' and what agnostic means to you.

Atheism is purely a disbelief of the claims by theists that a god/s exists. As others have said, Theism and gnosticism are different prongs of the same question - gnosticism is what you claim to know and theism is what you believe.

You say you 'decided' to become agnostic on your bio, which seems like an odd choice of words. Most people (in my experience) realise that the god of the bible/quran/insert religion of choice doesn't exist and then start to question their belief in any god. Believing isn't generally a choice.

Think things through, read through the posts on here, ask questions (which you have obviously already started to do) and take your time.

When you start to question the 'facts' you had always been told were true, it takes time a courage to challenge that. Especially when those that you trust around you are telling you that you that you are wrong.

I wish you well in your transition and hope you find answers to your questions.

Oh - and welcome in. I think you'll like it here.

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It can be a gradual process or occasionally some facts jel into you making the decision. I rate myself as 99.9% - although my mind says a god is impossible......

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I reckon you'll find your own way, the conversion thing comes from religion if you get my drift. To be an Atheist is simply an non belief, and with me it's rooted deep in my brain, I never got any of the God thing even when my age was in single digits . I remember being in Sunday School with my mate Richard Dawkins ,I remember saying to him "Don't you think this Jesus dude is a real Dudly do right ?" He replied " I only seek the truth and God is a delusion !" and Christopher Hitchins said " God is not great" and then lit a cigarette , we where only 6 years old ..LOL

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