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Make or Break

I stepped out for a cigar this morning.

I started enjoying them at the age of 35. I smoke one a month. I am aware that it's not healthy.

When I came back inside, my 13 year old chided me for smoking, as she does.

My thoughts turned to human interactions.

You may like or even love a person, but how many of their habits or quirks do you dislike or disapprove of?

How many of those habits or proclivities are you aware of?

How many does it take to cause you to reevaluate your relationship with said person?

How many times, if any, have you been aware that something you were doing might cause others to dislike you?

I am an extremely transparent and blunt person. I would prefer if my partners and loved ones were not only aware of my "quirks" but embraced me despite their personal opinions.
Understanding is not a prerequisite for acceptance in this scenario.

What's your opinion or insight on this rambling, poorly posed issue?

Donotbelieve 9 Mar 17
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15 comments

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0

You can't help who you love. It's one thing to acknowledge and make known differences about someone that aren't ideal. It's quite another to try to "change someone".

That can be a drag (no pun intended). Loving someone you can't respect is no fun.

0

I was in a situationship (don't ask) with a regular smoker. Over a five year period, we lost touch for about two years before reconnecting. The first time around, I would always bother her about quitting. The second time though, I decided to leave it be. She would quit if and when she was ready and my pestering, besides being annoying, wasn't going to make her get there any quicker.
I know for a fact that she appreciated my revised approach and honestly, it was significantly less stressful for me too, not having to worry about it.
The lesson: pick your battles. Decide what your deal-breakers are and ease up on the things that aren't the end of the world.
As an aside, she ultimately did quit smoking because SHE wanted to.

0

I hardly think one cheroot a month is a health issue.

And herein lies the rub with close family members and, sometimes, close friends.

I have always given people I love the space to be themselves, but have found reciprocation to be on the thin side.

My wife for example is an anxious insomniac. When we first married she was also a functional alchoholic (self-medicating essentially for anxiety and insomnia). I never said a word about it when I found empty wine bottles hidden in the trash or when she completely forgot conversations we'd had. She sorted it out for herself. She's worked out her issues on her own, which is the only way that anyone can. She no longer drinks and she's sleeping better and is more serene (for her, anyway). She has hammered out longstanding extended family dysfunction so that it doesn't live in between her ears so much any more. And she owes none of it to my sage advice, although I like to think that in giving her the space and acceptance she needs rather than feeding the self-loathing and guilt that screwed with her head all her life, I did indirectly help her to self-heal.

On the other hand like all anxious people she worries and tries to control me around that worrying. And she's one of those that responds to fear by getting angry. So she has very much not returned the favor or given me my space in some ways (fortunately not enough to be fatal to the relationship, but still).

This is just the way it is; opinions are like assholes, everyone has one; unfortunately unlike assholes everyone shares their opinions. Generally, they feel compelled to share them; they can't help themselves. It's just part of the human condition.

For me it's a balancing act between my human need for connection and my introvert-ish need, as my mother used to put it, to live in "peace rather than pieces". I have been around the block enough to know that as annoyed as I sometimes am with Other People, it wouldn't take long for being alone 24/7 would catch up with me, too. So much of being human is about shifting from one foot to the other, just moving pain around. It is one of the reasons I'm grateful that life is finite.

Of course it's easier to cope with this coming from a child who loves you and simplistically worries about you getting lung cancer or something. It's an expression, however inept and childish, of love and concern. But the harder problem is when inept, childish concerns come from the adults in your life. It's hard because you have these two voices fighting within yourself. One says in effect, "forgive them, for they know not what they do" and the other says, "WTF would it take to open their eyes?!?".

All I can say is that there comes a time -- and I can't define that for anyone else, but it's there somewhere -- when the best thing you can do for someone you love is let them go. When I divorced my first wife, I felt it was tantamount to murder. She was mentally ill, and getting sicker, but eventually I came to realize that leaving her -- which involved taking her children from her -- was the best thing I ever did for her. It forced her to deal in reality. It got her into the mental healthcare system -- against her will, initially, but she came to see it was the only way forward for her. It removed from her the option to act out in harmful and possibly fatal ways to me and to our children. I kept an eye on her, and when I felt she had deteriorated enough, and was clearly not taking care of herself or the house, I called in the nice people in the white coats, and they saw to it that she'd no longer be a danger to herself or others.

As unclear as that seemed to me when I was in the middle of it all, that was a lot clearer than the decisions a lot of people have to face in relationships, but maybe it serves as a little bit of an object lesson. Sometimes, as much as you love, or as much as you understand or empathize, you are in the way of the solution for that person's ultimate best interests and perhaps happiness ... you are not helping anymore.

@Donotbelieve Thanks for that. It is helpful to me if my experience is any help at all to others making their own journeys.

0

I am honest, loyal and would die for my real life friends. I also have some wacky quirks and a very dark sense of humor. Accept me, warts and all and I will die for you as well.

0

"Understanding is not a prerequisite for acceptance in this scenario."

Zen wisdom.

skado Level 9 Mar 17, 2019
0

The ocassional ciger is ok..but cigarettes and their overwhelming is for sure a breaker..

0

I think that the love (or strong like) of a person allows us to overlook some less-than-desirable traits - theirs and ours. I overlooked some things of my former spouse (of nearly 40 years), but as they grew in frequency or intensity, it became increasingly more difficult to ignore some traits or idiosyncrasies. Of the things he did which were irritating, I found that I, too, interrupted people, and worked harder to cease that annoying habit (I have ADD, and struggle to not instantly react to a thought, situation, reaction, whatever!). He, on the other hand, seemed less and less likely to care about interupting, and stopped showing any ability to filter his negative thoughts. Others observed that as well, so I concluded that it was not merely my seeing his changes. When my daughter admonished him - "don't make Mother cry!" - I realized that he had pretty much ceased any civilities. That was definitely the beginning of "the end" for our relationship. I came to realize that I was not tolerating MANY of his behaviors, and it eroded a very long relationship where I had otherwise been able to overlook his rudeness, or drinking, or whatever. At some point I think most people decide that the pain or embarrassment is absolutely not worth the person causing said issues. *(And how's that for a rambling response, lol?!)

0

It would be nice to have a relationship with someone who actually shared my appalling taste in music rather than just tolerated it as a mildly annoying quirk. I've kinda given up on that, though.

1

With the new baby, if you are breastfeeding, I would quit while breastfeeding. I personally cannot stand the smell of cigarettes and cigars and marijuana. It makes me want to throw up, but it is your choice and your family. Just my opinion.

1

A good measure of how much you love some one is by the amount of their shit you are able to tolerate without even thinking about it.

0

"Sometimes a cigar is just s cigar."

~ Sigmund Freud

While your 13 year old is correct, it seems an innocent enough activity.

My motto is, "All things in moderation, including excess."

I find it one of the many delightful things about you. I'm sure you were "good" when you were with child.

@Donotbelieve

"I can resist anything except temptation."

~ Oscar Wilde paraphrased later by Mae West h/t @Donotbelieve

@WilliamCharles
“The only way to get rid of a temptation is to yield to it. Resist it, and your soul grows sick with longing for the things it has forbidden to itself, with desire for what its monstrous laws have made monstrous and unlawful.”

― Oscar Wilde, The Picture of Dorian Gray

@Donotbelieve

"I have always depended on the kindness of strangers."

~ Blanche DuBois

@Donotbelieve not at all. In fact it was only recently I learned the full quote has this at the beginning, "Whoever you are..., " directed at the asylum doctor. While my traumas are numerous (though largely minor compared to most), it was merely an acknowledgement that I appreciate corrections as sharing knowledge relies on accuracy.

@Donotbelieve don't suffer in silence. Ask whatever comes to mind.

@Donotbelieve I'm intrigued by your statement elsewhere about seeing men's junk on TV. I got unfriended on FB for a pic of "junk" that wasn't (technically) by a woman I thought would get the humor. I was mistaken, which was sad because I felt we meshed quite well.

@Donotbelieve no connection specifically to this thread (other than maybe a tenuous one to "cigar" lol). The connection for me is things that intrigue.

Over there someone said "No one wants to see men's junk on TV," to which you enthusiastically responded, "Oh, I do!" Either you were kidding, or you happen to be one of those (rare?) women for whom visual erotica and/or depiction of male genitalia is arousing/enjoyable/stimulating/pleasurable/tolerated/whatever etc.

That brought to mind my own sharing in a FB PM of an image of myself that was treated as the type that people (men) inflicting photos of their naughty bits on women are. It was a pic that was actually in my public profile, but I had failed to notice I had not cropped sufficiently. It was my cat on my bed in front of the mirror at the head of the bed that I took sans pants. It just looked like two legs, when in actuality, a portion of "third leg" was displayed. She had already seen and liked the pic, but I had apparently erred in revealing that particular tidbit.

@Donotbelieve cheers to you then, my delightfully salacious friend. May your cup runneth over. ?

0

One cigar a month might be slightly annoying to me, as a non smoker. But it's hardly the sort of thing that would be a problem. Smoking indoors would be a problem, because it affects me and my health. Drinking isn't a problem, irresponsible drinking is. 420 smoked outdoors isn't a problem, but I can't participate, and indoors would be a problem. Other drugs can be problematic, obviously. I appreciate that no one will ever have the exact same quirks as I do. That's what keeps life interesting.

0

Everything should be done in moderation.. as long as its not hurting me, (or the relationship) i don't care

0

Each of us bring things to a relationship that are undesirable in some way. I can bet that some of those things even make us more attractive! "Ooo, she smokes a stogie once a month. That's sexy badass!" "Gawd, every month with the stogie. Make it end!" Things change in a hurry with intimacy.

I suppose, are the most awesome things about the other outweighing those undesirable bits? And when one is aware of what triggers the other, can a change be made that isn't about changing who you are?

1

Maybe I was smoking the wrong cigars? lol

I preferred a pipe back in the day. No nicotine for me any more - Cancer convinced me of that. So no I'd never live with someone who had to smoke. (The occasional stogie outside? That's acceptable).

I think the deal breaker comes when behavior can lead to ill health or impedes on your own health. Someone who drinks to excess? Never. My tolerance for the impaired is zero.

Someone who liked weed? Sure. Had to be stoned 24/7? Nope. (Unless there was a medical need - that's different).

It's a balance. Could I stand a guy who liked sports? Sure - as long as he didn't have to play them. As so many of them can lead to injury. Non-injury sport sure - but please don't make me go to games over and over again - that's not my thing.

Relationships are balancing acts - you have to do what makes people happy - and if it doesn't infringe on your happy - than fine.

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