Incapacitated people can't commit suicide, either, and need our help! I wouldn't be proud to say I helped put Dr. Kevorkian in jail. He was blazing a path to humane treatment and mercy for the dying that can only be understood by secular humanists. I live in Oregon. The assisted suicide law on the books now is practically useless. The patient has to jump through hoops that would be daunting to a 25 yr. old in perfect health. I'm in poor health and have tried to make inquiries from my doctors in preparation for the time that will come. All I get is stonewalled. Why should I go out in bloody violence or terror when a peaceful death is possible? In Oregon, the patient has to be capable of administering the deadly dose himself, another ridiculous barrier for many.

Sorry for your struggles. Wasn't bragging about putting Kevorkian in jail, just suggesting that after a year and a half of research into assisted suicide I might know something about it. Everyone CAN commit suicide, as I said, you might not like how you have to do it. There is a reason the medical profession is against it: They took an oath to preserve life not end it. Kevorkian, the ghoul, was blazing a path for himself. He was pathologist and obsessed with death. If you look up Kevorkian's paintings you'll find one with Santa Claus coming down the chimney stomping on an infant. We need to push the medical profession to adequately treat pain, not sentence people to death. At the time I had the case and maybe still, in the Netherlands where assisted suicide was not prosecuted, people were wearing necklaces saying "don't kill me" because 60% of people in hospitals were killed without consent. Unfortunately it can't be adequately regulated. You don't want any regulations, unfortunately some medical professionals and family members who no longer want to care for family members will take advantage of no regulations. Hang in there!

@lerlo I don't understanbd why you say it can't be regulated. It seems to work fine in Switzerland and the Netherlands. Sadly switzerland is the only country which will allow medically assisted suicide for non-nationals, and it is expensive but there are plenty of safeguards to prevent misuse. Of course we can all find a way to end our lives if we are willing to upset lots of other people by doing it in a nasty, messy way, but why should we have to? Why can't we go with comfort and dignity when we want to?

@CeliaVL Just because there are laws doesn't mean it's regulated. In oregon if the judge and two psychiatrists say that you're suicidal, you can't do it? I would suggest reading my numerous responses if you're curious about the multitude of problems. When I had the case, the Netherlands didn't prosecute it and 60% of people were killed without consent and patients wore necklaces saying "please don't kill me."

@lerlo It looks as if you have been misled by some faith-based propaganda. Both the Dutch government and Dutch medical association have confirmed that 'Don't kill me' bracelets do not exist. They think Rick Santorum, who made the claim, may be confusing them with 'Do not resuscitate' bracelets, which are very common with old people. Always worth doing a fact check on extraordinary claims!

@CeliaVL Sorry to inject some truth here but of course the doctors doing the killing won't admit that involuntary euthanasia exists. Here are some facts: Dr. Herbert Hendin, an expert on Dutch euthanasia in Issues in Law and Medicine:
...a Protestant group also opposed to euthanasia, they distribute a “passport for life” that patients carry, indicating that in medical emergencies they do not want their lives terminated without their consent.
In "The Report of the Dutch Government Committee on Euthanasia, 7 Issues in Law and Medicine 339 (1991) Dr. Richard Fenigsen found that 14,691 cases of INVOLUNTARY euthanasia occurred annually in the Netherlands. Of the 8,100 cases where morphine was given in excessive doses with the intent to terminate life, 61% were done WITHOUT THE PATIENT'S CONSENT. (P.341) These cases were reported not as involuntary euthanasia but as "pain relief."

I researched euthanasia for a year and a half and I didn't get a 7-0 decision in the Michigan Supreme Court citing false facts. Please don't confuse me with Rick Santorum but of course you are allowed to believe whatever lets you sleep at night.

@lerlo I won't dispute your information since I haven't read it. I think you will find, though, that there is very strong support in numerous countries for changing the laws on pain relief in terminal illness, and medically assisted dying in cases of terminal and life-limiting illness. it used to be the case in the UK that terminally ill patients who were in severe and intractable pain were given doses of morphine which led directly to their death - that is, involuntary euthanasia. This was considered normal procedure and no-one objected. Since the Harold Shipman case and the vast increase in money-chasing litigation, however, doctors have become afraid to do this with the result that a considerable number of patients now spend their last days and even weeks screaming in agony and begging their families and doctors to put them out of their misery. The doctors are afraid to give them the dose of morphine that would be adequate for pain relief because they know that this dose will shorten the patient's life. It is all very well to say that we must improve our palliative care techniques, etc., but I think we need the option to choose to end our lives and to givbe doctors permission to do this when it is clearly the right thing. I would certainly have no objection to people carrying cards etc., saying that they wish to be resuscitated, treated, etc. In the UK this is the default position and you have to provide the paperwork if you do not want to be resuscitated, which can be complicated in emergency situations. The important thing is to make sure that your family know your wishes. I am sure we can find a way to meet everyone's needs and wishes if we show willingness to discuss it, but unfortunately many people don't want to accept that they are going to die.

@CeliaVL You realize you said that people were given morphine without consent, involuntary euthanasia, AND NO ONE COMPLAINED. Do you mean like the dead person? Or the family of the dead person who no longer wanted the burden didn't complain Doctors are supposed to do no harm and help people to live. Everyone has the right to suicide, even people who are not terminal. The only way you know that someone wants to kill themselves is if they do it themselves. I think we should focus more on developing ways to control pain. People can stop eating, drive their car off a cliff. If they are dying does it really matter how they do it--rather than force a profession which takes an oath not to cause harm to do it? By the way, if you give morphine to a patient with Lou Gehrig's disease it will ease their pain but it will suffocate them, why is that "dignified?"

@lerlo On that specific point, clearly, if you have Lou Gehrig's disease and wish to end your life, a more pleasant and dignified way of doing so needs to be found.I disagree that the only way to know if people really mean it is if they do it themselves - someone who is screaming in agony during their last days and begging to be put out of their misery is hardly in a position to do it themselves. I would be happy to let people do it themselves if they can be supplied legally with the means to do it in a decent and painless way. I would very much like to be able to go to the doctor and say 'Please can I have the drugs to end my life, and then do it myself at home, surrounded by family and friends. Not everyone has a car or a nearby cliff, and starving to death is very unpleasant and protracted for those watching.

That seems a fair barter. Lately, I have wondered if there would be money to be made to satisfy the plutocracy by arranging end of life celebratory cruises where those who wished to die and their significant others might spend a few lavish and intimate days at sea towards the end of which those who so desired would be euthanized in their sleep then buried at sea over some deep marine trench killing two birds with one stone, no pun intended.

There are just not in the US.

Here is a great article from a documentary last year.

[dailymail.co.uk]

There is a movie: Suicide Tourist.

There is a suicide law in Oregon to protect ones right to take their life. But I’m not sure on specifics.

Thanks for the link! A very interesting read, and you can tell that the writer is a tad biased by her statement "Suicide is the biggest killer of young men in this country [UK] and the more it is normalised, the more people will think of it as a way out."

The "way out" part is what caught my attention. Suicide is the "way out" of what, exactly? It sounds as if she has NO concept of what death with dignity is, and has the religious mind set of "keep them alive as long as possible, so they can suffer with the rest of us".

Personally, as I said before, I think everyone should have the choice of ending his/her life whenever they damn well feel like it, and it shouldn't be frowned upon or shown contempt. The spark of life is ours to do with as we wish, and if we wish to estinguish it, so be it.

:0) She was very bias. Haha. True.

@Annaleda There is an assisted suicide law in Oregon where I live but it is highly restrictive. Two physicians must state the patient has less than six months to live under any circumstances, the patient must be of sound mind when making the request and the patient has to be capable of administering the lethal dose themselves. How many invalids in their final days can meet these requirements. Less than 350 people in a state populated by 4 million people have been able to take advantage of this in any one year.

Many seniors, including myself, stock pile drugs against the day that we decide enough is enough. But this is risky business as the drugs may not be effective or would lead to a painful death.

I agree. I have no others, so I do feel it's my responsibility to make the decision for myself before I'm too far gone.

GareBear517: There is information online and groups with information on preferred medications or cocktails but they all urge caution because too little or the wrong combination of drugs can have terrible consequences. Vanilla yogurt is easy to swallow and honey for any bitterness.

I am making an exit bag kit for helium for myself. It seems easy to make and use and it's a very quick peaceful transition..Regardless of how it's done one should still have supervision or assistance. Even with something as straight forward as an Exit Bag, a hose can come loose as your posture changes or the gas can run out with disastrous results if you are alone.

Have you seen the movie Soylent Green? I love the part when you decide when to die, go to a clinic and they put on your favorite music, you lie down and peacefully go to sleep. I think euthanasia is the most humane way to die. All pet owners who have had to do this agree that the elimination of suffering is the most important when it's time to go. It should be a choice, not governed by someone else religion.

@SoloSentient With passing of my 91 old mother who wanted to be euthanatized, I would also want an exit kit. Dying slowly is not pretty. As I understand the right type of helium is hard to get a hold of. If you have any info to help me prepare, please share

I could not agree more!

all creatures in fact

As another cancer survivor-I had a hard time with pain-not knowing from day to day if I would survive. I think I had the fear of losing control of my body functions and not dying with dignity.

American's do fear death and avoid to subject, even with the dying. I do not fear death. What I fear is dying. Once beyond death's threshold fear of pain and death are gone. I fear the legal pressure, corporate greed, political fraud and bureaucratic medicine and their effect on my choices and treatment at the end of my life.

Autocorrect could have changed it on him. My phone won't let me type "NC" (even though I live in north carolina) and always changes it to "NJ".

My computer won't let me use lower case letters for christian and other religious terms unless I go back and override the auto-correct.

I agree all this should be sorted out by the patient when of sound mind. Having worked in skilled nursing facilities, however, I can tell you that many people in the last years of their lives are incapable of feeding themselves must less preparing and taking an injection. Professional care and aid is a necessary evil.

been a doctor for 35 years. also read a lot about the history of the Holocaust. The first people in that process were exactly the people you mention. I do not have the confidence in people to NOT start a slide down a similar slippery slope again

Excellent point! Both of my parents have asked me to euthanize them if their minds go. My dad told me to take him to the lake, duct tape a fishing pole to his hand, and take the brake off his wheelchair. These things are too much to ask of a daughter.

You mentioned "anesthetic gas then an asphyxiating gas" but beware that the wrong gas can make for a very unpleasant death. CO2 or carbon monoxide is noxious and before it can knock you out you experience disorientation, panic, hyperventilation, convulsions then unconsciousness, and eventually death.

I am not advocating this nor will I describe the kit or set up but the concept is simple. If helium replaces the oxygen you normally breathe that deprives the brain of oxygen causing a rapid loss of consciousness and death. The last thing you want to experience before dying is panic, disorientation and convulsions and an inert, non-toxic gas will do that. Along with may other considerations and preparations.

Well there's always an anesthetic and a gun. But that wouldn't be legal for the rest of the world. Only America.

Being double in continent or looking my senses through dementia or death with dignity... no contest in my mind

Great routine! I love Doug Stanhope!

He’s pretty damn funny. One of the best

I will check it out thanks

Ten likes for you!

Well said, and I'm sorry for your many losses.

Thank you. Before he died my brother brother said he imagined death would be like taking off a tight shoe. Helping yourself or someone achieve such a passing is a kindness of the highest order.

Over the years I have participated in innumerable fund raising activities for every disease from cancer to AIDS. The hook is always, "Help find a cure for__!" fill in the blank. Millions are raised but all we get are more maintenance drugs, never cures. I am beginning to think that instead of making grants to pharmaceutical companies, universities and the like that the search for cures be nationalized and the NIH stop making such grants.

I totally agree.

There is only one criteria that the person considering assisted suicide should have to meet. Namely, that it is their desire to do so. Despair, depression, loneliness are really terminal illnesses in their own right. Should those suffering have only violence (guns, jumping) or risky homemade poisonous concoctions as an option? Counseling should be part of the process but the ultimate decision should be left to the individual. Squeamish doctors should not put their values above those of their patients. But if many opt out there would still be those who would probably have a practice specializing in such assistance. The idea of using condemned convicts as the supervisors over such acts is outlandish and unnecessary. The whole idea is to allow assisted suicide in clinical surroundings.

Doctors are not all about saving lives..just customers

But what if they don't want to go on living - even without a terminal illness? Shouldn't that be their choice? If you don't think so - why not?

That is a tougher question. If a person doesn't have a debilitating illness, but still wants to commit suicide, I fall back on the old saying that "suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem".

Of all the people who attempted suicide by jumping off the Golden Gate Bridge, everyone who survived changed thir minds after jumping... usually on the way down.

I think in al;most every case persons who are suicidal have built a kind of psycholigcal box for themselves in which they can see no way out. I myself have had suicidal feelings, and one of my sisters attempted suicide twice (persons raised in a rigid religion are at least three times more likley to commit suicide). In both of out cases, all we needed to do was knock out one of the walls of our psychological box, simply by leaving the religion, and we had a way out other than suicide.

In the end we all die anyways. I look at it as staying to see how our life story goes I've had a pretty miserable childhood, nto as bad as some, but not happy, and I only have the one life. I'd like my adult life to be much a happier, as i have more control over that part of my life than I did as a child. I want to see how the adventure ends based on my own, not somebody else's decisions about how to live my life.

So, for the vast majority of those who are suicidal, I think they can adequately recover and live happy and fulfilling lives. However, I cannot say for sure who can and who can't recover. I think help should be offered and be available for suicidal persons.

From a stand point of valuing human life, if there were no efforts to prevent suicide, then human life itself would be devalued, and then how would we feel about people taking the lives of others? For that reason, even if it only makes a light difference in valuing human life itself, suicide of physically healthy people should be prevented if possible.

I live in Oregon that has legalized physician assisted suicide but the conditions one has to meet are so restrictive that few can take advantage. You have to be of sound mind but near death and capable of administering the fatal dose yourself. How many invalids are capable of that?

I think if the sufferer agrees to die then he shld be assisted to end is life. Or given the means to end his life himself.

What poisons will work? Will it be an agonizing death? Is the person capable of a violent death by knife, gun, jumping or stepping out in traffic? Why should he/she not be accorded the dignity of a proven, painless death professionally supervised? Sure. Anyone can kill themselves. Or can they?

none of us is getting out of here alive. you can't add to the deaths but you can make the transition much better. some things are worse than death and some people aren't capable of killing themselves painlessly.

Our recoiling in horror at the idea of euthanasia and its being legislated against is mainly the work of religion. Another good reason to build an impenetrable wall between church and state. Like abortion this matter should be left strictly to the individual and his/her physician. And physicians should learn in their medical educations that sometimes death is the cure.

Agree

But such a rare event.

We definitely have death without dignity for those who cannot play the corporatist plutocrat game invented to squeeze the last dime out of the desperate. When you have no more money to buy tokens to feed Big Pharma, the insurance rackets and corporate medical networks you can just go to a corner, wither and die. I think they call it Freedom.

I'm with you, brother!

See my reply to AtheistinNC!

We need to talk up the idea of a new Constitutional Convention formed of people mostly outside present day government who have all been corrupted by the need for huge campaign donations traded for promises. The old Constitution was written during the "Age of Enlightenment" and served the 18th and 19th centuries well. But we need a new one based on secular humanist and democratic socialist principles to serve us in the 21st century.

Same is true in Oregon where you have to be diagnosed as terminally ill with less than six months left to live by two physicians, of sound mind and capable of administering the lethal dose yourself. Few can meet that criteria which makes the law essentially useless. Highest usage in one year has been 350 people.

a lot of drugs will kill you but not nice and clean like you would imagine so do research. sadly I have.

To the religious it is unnatural and is playing God. They fail to see that the ways of extending life is also unnatural and playing God. I like to think these people say they can't wait to meet Jesus, but not just yet.

Good info on Exit Bag. Thanx!