Your vote is obviously your own, and basing it to that extent on your like/dislike of a candidate's supporters seems somewhat problematic... but you do you.

I think there's undeniable evidence Bernie was cheated in the 2016 primaries, and similar shenanigans are still in play for 2020. If anyone should call it out more, it should be Bernie. But at least he's taken the MSM to task. Plenty of examples of what I'm talking about there, but you believe what you want.

@WilliamCharles One of the reasons I didn't vote for Trump was his high poll rating among white racists. That was basing part of my vote on a candidate's supporters. Turns out I was right in my opinion of him and his voting base. Nothing but a bunch of white racists attempting to instill white nationalism in America.

If anyone was "cheated" in the 2016 election, it was the American people. Bernie wasn't "owed" anything in that election so he wasn't cheated out of anything. It's almost 4 years in the past and people still whining about it instead of how Trump cheated the country out of a democracy is IMO, complaining about last week's spilt milk incident while the kitchen is on fire.

@redbai

I think the facts say otherwise. The cheating was done in multiple ways. And do not forget, Trump was Team Hillary's handpicked Pied Piper. She played chicken with the fate of the nation in her pursuit of power... and lost.

But you are right in one respect. The gaslighting Hillary supporters were guilty of caused many people to just stay home. It hurt races all down the ticket.

It was like a car thief asking for gas money afterward.

As far as Trump was concerned, he is awful enough on his own, regardless of his supporters.

@WilliamCharles Yeah, because Russia sat on the sidelines and did nothing to affect the election at all. Sorry, I'm not buying it. If there had been no collusion with Russia by the Trump Administration (laid out in great detail in the Mueller report) Hillary would have won that election. Not to mention Comey's October surprise of a fake story regarding emails. So blaming her is just more whining as far as I'm concerned. But that's "cheating" that is irrelevant regardless of how it actually affected the nation, because Bernie not getting a chance to run against Trump is the real issue which he probably would have lost because the black vote would not have come out for him. He's just realizing in this election that he has to address issues of POC that have nothing to do with white economic concerns and struggling with attempting the changeover.

@redbai

Russiagate was a few rubles spent by troll farms on social media platforms. That has been debunked as far as I'm concerned.

@WilliamCharles Have you read the Mueller report? Debunked how? This video doesn't debunk anything and making fun of an old man's memory is not debunking the report.

@redbai

The report is full of weasel words without pinning down anything specific. What elements of the report do you consider concrete evidence of "interference" (and define that term, please) by the Russian government (and not just Russian troll farms)? All those stating "read the report" fail to cite what the so called smoking gun is. Enlighten us.

@WilliamCharles Did you read the Mueller Report? (You didn't answer that question) I have.

You said that the report was debunked and your evidence is that it's "full of weasel words without pinning down anything specific". I know that's not true as I have read the document. Nothing in that video that you presented debunked a single thing in the Mueller report.

And that's totally irrelevant anyway. The issue here is whether or not Bernie was cheated out of anything justifying all the whining being done by his supporters today. The cause and effect of Russian interference in the 2016 general election has no bearing on that.

If Bernie is so great talk about why. Whining about how this "great man" was somehow cheated out of saving the world because of procedural policies in a political party serves no purpose except whining.

Deal with today's reality, not what is wished would have happened in the past. Only one can actually effect change and make a difference.

@redbai

I've neither read the report, nor any smoking gun presented by those who have, including you.

Why don't you give a few citations of damning material you insist is there? Should be easy, no?

Debbie Wasserman-Schultz stepped down for the cheating Wikileaks revealed. Elizabeth Warren and Donna Brazille acknowledged the cheating before they backpedaled. Ed Schultz revealed before he died how he was ordered not to cover Bernie's announcement he was running. The MSM was instructed to puff Trump as a Pied Piper (which they did). Many times MSDNC would have their main screen showing Trump's empty podium, with an ongoing Bernie speech at a massive campaign rally relegated to a small screen with no sound in the corner. I saw this done multiple times. Voter rolls were inexplicably scrubbed. When exit polling did not match the results, the exit polling was discontinued. And on and on and on.

You believe what you want, and vote however you see fit. You have an opportunity, here and now, to provide the proof you claim exists. If you are unwilling or unable to do that one simple thing... stop wasting my time with your assertions that are long on conjecture, and short on facts.

@WilliamCharles So you are making comments on something you haven't read and cannot demonstrate that anything in it has been debunked. Why should I go through explaining something you haven't read? You would have to read the report and validate the citations that the report uses. Are you going to do that?

You haven't demonstrated a single case in which Bernie was cheated out of ANYTHING he deserved.

Ed Shultz not covering Bernie's announcement isn't cheating, it's not reporting on something. Bernie didn't have a right to anyone in the country covering his announcement and that certainly didn't keep anyone from knowing that he announced.

The MSM being ordered (by your claim) to puff up Trump didn't only affect Bernie. I'm assuming MSDNC means MSNBC and if that is the case, they didn't only do it to Bernie speeches. Nothing you claim the media did was ONLY done to Bernie.

Voter rolls weren't "inexplicably scrubbed", the Russians did it if you bothered to keep up with the news. They know for a fact that Russians hacked into all 50 states voting rolls.

[politicususa.com]

Telling me I have the ability to provide something that has absolutely nothing to do with validating the whining about Bernie is just a red herring. I never claimed that the Mueller Report had anything to do with the whining of Bernie supporters.

@redbai

So you got nothing. I get it. The cheating was done the same way embezzlers might rob a company. Stealing from the till, the loading dock, petty cash, forged checks, fake employees, fraudulent bank transactions, etc.

Wikileaks revealed the coordination of various news outlets and the DNC. The DNC argued in court in the fraud lawsuit that they're allowed to stack the deck. Hillary was slipped debate questions. The debates themselves were limited and buried to assist Clinton.

We can agree to disagree I guess, because I see a reality you do not. And I'm not the only one. No one owed Clinton their vote, and she did little to earn them. Dolt 45 is on her.

@redbai

"FiveThirtyEight, which is owned by ABC/Disney, functions as a sort of gatekeeper for polling, and polls are extremely important for candidacies. The public is told that polls judged as A+ by FiveThirtyEight are to be seen as real bellwethers of popular opinion. In reality, “the polls” are manufactured to produce the results that the pollsters (and their corporate funders) want to see.

Just take a look at the recent Monmouth University poll, which was released just prior to Biden’s official decision to run. The results showed Biden 9 percentage points ahead of Sanders, but if you look closely you will see that more than 70% of the people polled are over the age of 50. Any honest person would be able to tell you that the 2020 electorate will be far younger than 50."

[ivn.us]

@WilliamCharles So your refusal to read the Mueller report, the actual evidence, means there's nothing in it? Interesting perspective. You ignore it so it doesn't exist. Does that work for everything in your life. Ignore it and it doesn't exist?

"The cheating was done like..."? Not details of the actual cheating, because there's nothing like that to reference (unlike the Mueller Report, full of such evidence if you bother to read it).

They are allowed to make any rules they want to. It's not "stacking the deck", it's their party, their rules. If Bernie didn't want to play by their rules, he didn't have to run in THEIR party. All this whining about the Democrats not bending over far enough backwards to accommodate a NON-Democratic member is, again, ridiculous. He's NOT OWED anything. At least Hillary was a Democrat.

Why would I look at poll data? Do you expect I'll have some kind of epiphany and see the rationale behind whining about something that happened almost 4 years ago and cannot be changed and has literally not affected anything except the feelings of Bernie supporters?

@redbai

"Have you read the Mueller Report?," without offering what you find so damning is an interesting dodge.

Again, you keep your blinders on. I'm sure they'll serve your rugged independence quite well come election time. Your gaslighting has no effect on me, though. I'll continue to call them as I see them.

YMMV

@WilliamCharles Asking you to actually read evidence that YOU claim has been debunked is a "dodge".

From you:
"Russiagate was a few rubles spent by troll farms on social media platforms. That has been debunked as far as I'm concerned."

You don't/can't define what in it is "debunked" because you haven't read it. So you have no idea what you're talking about when you made the statement as you speak from ignorance. I've actually read the document and you haven't and refuse to. But "I'm" the one with blinders because I'm informed and don't accept your comments without evidence.

Yeah, let's just agree to disagree.

@redbai

Wasn't looking to turn it into a pissing contest, friend. We probably vote in a similar fashion on a lot of things. I'm all for getting rid of Dolt 45. My concern, and one shared by quite a few people whether you believe it or not, is that DNC shenanigans will result in the same disaster that happened in 2016. Team Hillary couldn't have been more heavy-handed at the Democratic Convention if they had tried. They told progressives in no uncertain terms they weren't needed. And what did their vote shaming and gaslighting get them? Trump. The DNC made sure they got the one goddamn person who couldn't beat Trump nominated.

And it wasn't the Russians. She crashed and burned on her own. A hell of a lot of progressives are working hard for their candidates before the primaries even officially begin to prevent a recurrence of a pisspoor candidatethat can't beat Trump. Bernie woll slaughter him. He gets people fired up. People were disheartened and stayed home because they felt cheated.

If the Mueller report wasn't such a nothingburger, the House would act on it. They're as toothless as you, not being able to convince anyone else that the report says what you pretend it says.

Put up or shut up (you and them).

You.Got.Nothing.

@WilliamCharles You're right. If you refuse to read the evidence, I have nothing for you. The idea that a four hundred page book can be summarized in a comment section on the internet is something that both you and AG Barr seem to have in common regardless of how ridiculous it is.

sadly, his admirable qualities aren't appreciated by most voters & even worse are used against him by his opponents.

@callmedubious You're right. Chiefly, I think, it's a matter of education. Primarily, most people have no idea about the meaning of a socialist democracy.

Exactly. As a socialist, to me whoever Wall Street, corporate America, and the Dem establishment hate the most is the best endorsement of who we need to reform things. We need another FDR and Bernie is as close as we get these days.

@TomMcGiverin My logic exactly.

I try to venture out of my bubble, but I must admit I generally find Berners the most awesome of people. I can't say the same about the Bernie haters.

@WilliamCharles Damn right! Bernie or bust. I don't take shit about or apologize for anything about Bernie. He is the only pol on the national scene who always tells the truth about what is wrong and can't be bought with campaign money or speaking fees, unlike all the rest of them, including Warren.

@TomMcGiverin I do not know any of those details. I just see him speak the truth without reservation.

@Spinliesel Agreed.