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Ok, so here goes agnosticism versus atheism 101

gnostic has to do with knowledge

Theism has to do with belief

the "a" prefix presupposes a lack of knowledge (agnostic) or belief (atheist)

Everyone is "agnostic" by default because no one knows whether god actually exists or not.

Everyone is either a "theist" or an "atheist" because they either hold to the belief that god exists or they do not.

If someone does not believe god exists they are then an agnostic atheist, because while they do not know if god actually exists or not they do not hold to the belief that he does.

AHWalter1989 5 Apr 17
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Wrong.
There is NO SUCH THING as an "agnostic atheist," as has been pointed out many times.
This is at the crux of the misunderstanding many atheists have about the difference.
What they are really alluding to is the difference between a 'strong' atheist and a 'weak' atheist, since both require a level of BELIEF in his or her position.
In that sense, atheists and theists are two sides of the same coin.
Agnosticists do not HAVE a belief system, so it's not possible to BELIEVE god does not exist, however strongly or weakly, AND at the same time have no belief one way or the other. OPINIONS, YES, BELIEFS, NO.
I know a lot of atheists resist that fact, but it's a crucial distinction.
Because an atheist assumes 'god' does not exist, in every argument he or she is the 'con,' whereas an Agnosticist could take either side.
The confusion arises because in a discussion with an Atheist, an Agnosticist MUST take the relatively 'pro' position by default, or else cede the point. If he cedes the point, there is usually little or no discussion.
It is only when the two disagree an argument ensues, so because arguments are much more visible and audible, the false impression is given Agnosticists are more 'spiritual,' i.e. quasi- religious, or a 'weak' theist.
This is a false impression.
One could make the argument a 'weak' atheist is really an Agnosticist, but that would also be wrong, for the above reasons.
The other--one might say more basic-- error is in one's DEFINITION of 'god.'
If by the word one means a personal, caring, self-aware entity who created not only hell but evil in general, then lots of Agnosticists are, in that very narrow sense, atheists, myself included.
This because BY DEFINITION this kind of 'god' cannot exist. (A benevolent, infinitely 'good' god who nevertheless created hell/evil is a self-contradiction. It cannot be true.) If one wants to postulate an evil god, one is a Satanist. If one wants to believe in both, one is an Abrahamic theist.
(A 'good' god who didn't create hell but DID create evil? Hmmm...maybe.)
If by the word one means an impersonal, indifferent, 'universal consciousness' of some sort, many agnosticists are open to speculation, including about an all-encompassing 'neo-deism.' NOT BELIEF.
Do you now see the difference? We are often arguing about variously different things.

I already know the difference between agnosticism and a weak or strong atheist and the two are not incompatible with each other. If someone has an opinion on the likelihood or probability of a God or Gods existing that would be called a belief not just an opinion.

This is simple Sunday school math, if agnostic has to do with a lack of knowledge and Atheism has to do with a lack of belief then someone can be an agnostic atheist.

@AHWalter1989 So you're saying an opinion always IS a belief?
No.
If I say, 'Vanilla is the best ice cream flavor,' I'm expressing my subjective opinion, not an all-encompassing truth. For ME that may be true, but it's certainly not true of everybody.
If I say, 'I believe vanilla is the best ice cream flavor,' I'm implying much more. Someone might respond, 'Well, YOU might think so, but I like Rocky Road best.'
So most people would say (I think) belief is more a statement of objective FACT.
'I believe God exists,' has a different ring than, 'It's my opinion god exists.' The first is a deeply-held conviction, the second a cognitive construction.
An Agnostic would say it's his or her opinion god does or does not exist; an atheist or a theist would say they BELIEVE god does or doesn't exist.
Do you see my point?
Probably not.

@Storm1752 ok the insulting is completely unnecessary.

@Storm1752 The only contention I would have with your reasoning is if someone says their opinion is that vanilla is the best ice cream that is solely based on their subjective taste in ice-cream while if someone says their opinion is that God exists that is a stronger belief statement because they would actually be saying that based on outside information that they see that causes them to go in that direction.

@AHWalter1989 If one has a lack of knowledge (everybody), one doesn't know.
If I enter a room with a black box sitting on a table, I don't know what is in the box (unless someone tells me).
I can say, 'I believe it's a statue,' with of course no basis for that satement.
I'm probably wrong, of course; it could be any number of an infinite list of things. But I may for some insane reason say with certainty, 'It's a statue. I believe that to be true.'
OR I could say, 'I don't know what's in the box.'
I can't say both.
One person cannot say,
'I believe there is no god," and,
'I don't know if there's a god or not.'

Why do I say that? Because practically EVERY atheist to whom I have spoken or read their words have pronounced their BELIEF with conviction.
They are REALLY saying, 'There is no god.'
They may qualify that somewhat with a weasal word or two, or say grudgingly, 'Of course, I don't know that for a fact, so I'm sort of agnostic, but I'm as sure of it as I am sure there's not a purple dragon in my garage.'
In other words it's a distinction without a difference.
So (please?) stop saying there's such a thing as an agnostic atheist.
You mean an agnostic whose opinion it is there is no god, but truly doesn't know.
A 'weak' atheist is someone who is 90% sure rather than 99.9%.

@AHWalter1989 Don't tell me: Neopolitan rules.

@Storm1752 I have no idea what you mean by that lol

@AHWalter1989 It's a carton of ice cream divided into three sections: vanilla, chocolate, and strawberry.

@Storm1752 Oh nevermind I get why you said that now lol

@Storm1752 One thing that seems to me is if someone says they believe there is no God it seems more like that would be an anti-theist, according to the definiton of anti-theist that I found online at least. Like an atheist doesn't hold to the belief that a God exists but an anti-theist actually actively believes God does not exist.

@AHWalter1989 An anti-theist is somebody who opposes theists. This is quite different a proposition to somebody who is an atheist, though an atheist may also be an anti-theist.

@anglophone True. Probably is INVARIABLY an ANTI-THEIST!
That doesn't mean they don't share an attraction to 'belief systems,' unlike Agnosticists.

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Your post would benefit significantly from additional analytical thinking.

Please give me some evidence for your assertion instead of simply trashing my post, thank you.

@AHWalter1989 Your "Everyone is either a 'theist' or an 'atheist' because they either hold to the belief that god exists or they do not." fails to address the question of which god. It also fails to address the observed phenomenon of different believers different levels of certainty about the existence of the god or gods that they claim - you have binarised a continuum. There is also the logical problem of those who are theist about one god, often the Abrahamic god, are also atheist about other gods.

Have I given you enough to work with?

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This old chestnut again?

new people coming along trying to get it all learned.

Yes, like the dead horse, it keeps on rearing up its ugly head, because it has failed to realise that it is dead.

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I know i exist, many people think my name is God. It is true, i really do exist.

belief means to hold as true, disbelief means to hold as false, unbelief would be like undoing, did believe now does not believe or would be holding as false.

Word Level 8 Apr 18, 2020

Wrong. Unbelief and non-belief are two different things.

@Storm1752 OK, so if you have a point, I researched shortly for myself unbelief and nonbelief.

here's what i get from a quick google reference.

unbelief is an absence (or rejection) of belief, especially religious belief.

So unbelief is to reject calling something true then implying it is false.

while nonbelief ... failure to believe.

So non belief is a failure to call something true.

How can one fail to call something true?

But your statement is false. Nobody thinks your name is God.

@Word The way I've always understood it is unbelief is a more proactive (or reactive) REJECTION of a belief in God, whereas non-belief is the absence of belief (and unbelief) in God...it simply is not there.
So atheism is unbelief, Agnosticism is non-belief.

@Storm1752 I use that, 'God is not my name" in part as humor that I understand but others do not usually pick up on.

Part of my point is that 'God" would not specifically be God's name. God is more of a label for something like President, king, teacher not a proper name like Bob, Fred, etc.

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Oh go ahead and get a few whacks in on this horse if you feel like it. Conversations which didn't include you don't really do you a lot of good. The only thing I'd take exception to is

"Everyone is "agnostic" by default because no one knows whether god actually exists or not."

But in fact an agnostic isn't just someone who doesn't have a legitimate claim to certainty. An agnostic is someone who recognizes and acknowledges that. It might be true from some points of view that everyone should be agnostic but you'll find plenty who aren't, both among believers and atheists.

Put another way, nobody knows, but some THINK they do.

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This has been "beaten a dead horse" MANY times here. 😛

And yet, I do still see members of each tribe trash-talk the other. (Not often, hooray!)

In general, I have been impressed by the civility here.

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