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Are we a superior design?

We have found bones to explain our evolution from monkey's or did monkeys evolve from humans? How is it that we have not found where we started growing fingers? How is it that we have feet and not paws? It's kind of amazing how humans designed themselves through choices. Men chose the shorter female throughout time and now short females are the norm. Females chose the taller men and the man's average height has changed. We're taller then the 18th century men. Just something to think about.

BucketlistBob 8 Apr 3
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22 comments

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6

Humans have their disadvantages just like any other species:

  1. Human babies are born completely helpless, and remain that way for a long time.
  2. Our sense of smell is downright pathetic compared to some other animals
  3. Weak soft bodies.
  4. And for some reason it seems that "lower" animals have extra senses that humans don't possess. Remember the Tsunami of 2004? Almost all of the "lower" animals survived. 100,000+ humans perished!

That's well said...

Excellent points, things I have been getting my head around in recent months. ie the baby bit. There is an evolutionary advantage in it that pertains to the transfer of knowledge. So much is transferred in DNA, but DNA changes slowly. So by having a big blank brain, higher animals can teach their young. Humans have taken this to a whole new level. We have peaked though. We cannot get much bigger, babies are already born with folding skulls to enable birth, we have maxed out hat option, if women's hips were much wider they would not be able to walk. So, the future will have to be implanted microchips.

@Rugglesby or, we could just start using the Huge areas of our brain that are just sitting there, dormant.

@AnneWimsey Sadly that is a myth that has been perpetuated since the late 19th century. The claim was that we used only 10 % of our brain. If this was the case we could remove 90% of it and be no worse off. We use pretty much all of our brain pretty much all of the time.

5

A simplistic view of human evolution. We did not "evolve from monkes" nor did "monkeys evolve from humans." (we evolved from a common ancestor). Men did not necessarily "...chose the shorter female throughout time..." the smaller female stature may have been the norm and men grew bigger by comparison to compete (fight over), agansnt each other for females. Or, if the norm for early man was to force himself upon unwilling females, it would seem that it would be a whole lot easier and safer to mount a small female rather than some huge amazon the is likely to kick your ass or kill you...it is possible that large females therefore, had fewer offspring than the smaller females. You do not seem to have a good grasp on human eveloution...a few books on the subject or college courses may be of benifit to you.

That's all theory brother. There's no right answer.

Or only, those who had access to better nutrition and less disease evolved according to their environments such as the animals, plants, and terrain. Evolution isn't static. Our world, our universe, all creation is in a constant state of evolutionary flux.

@BucketlistBob And then there is off-the-wall bullshit.

@Angelface true..

@BucketlistBob Exactly...only conjecture.

4

As for humans being a superior design, no we are poorly designed (by higly adapted) for life on this planet. Being hairless, our bodies are not well adapted to but a few degress latatude on each side of the equater. Compare that to Canids, Bears, Tigers, etc. that can live seeming comfortabley in the tropics or colder climes. We also are poorly designed to evade/escape preditors...we cannot out run nor out climb them...we are physically virtually defensless...a very poor design. So poor, infact that the author of "The Naked Ape", Desmond Morris stated that from his perspective as a zooligist, that when the human body is examined, it is almost as if we did not evolve on this planet.

We gave up that defense when our smarter brain figured out appearance is more pleasing then hair. Imagine where we would be still climbing trees.

@BucketlistBob If "we gave up that defense" is not logical...it could have caused humans to become extinct. Humans are not well adapted to climbing trees, but that is an example of a poor adaption. Some Baboons are basically terrestrial, not arboreal, but in the event of danger, they can climb trees well enough to escape danger. Humans, on the other hand, are not apparently capable of running up a tree as are baboons...so it is not a matter of where we would be if we could still climb trees, it is a matter of losing the ability to climb them if we had to. Something that very well could have caused our extinction. Also, you are assuming that the reason we are not covered with hair is that hair is less pleasing than not. You are assuming facts not in evidence.

@dahermit creating communities and using our brain has separated us out of the jungle and fields. We gave up that defense means adaptation has changed. Actually... there's no facts pertaining to losing our hair. It's all educated guessing.

@BucketlistBob There are still humans living in the Jungle (Baka) and in fields (Kalahari Bushmen). They live in small bands, no larger than a troop of baboons...evidently, they did not see the need for change/adaptation.

4

There was a common ancestor to modern apes and humans but it branched off multiple times.

Many things have not been found due to the nature of the timescales involved, the fragility of our bodies and the inability for us to look at mitochondrial DNA past a certain age. That does not mean human evolution is invalidated unless we have all the parts. It's quite remarkable when we find ancestors of h.sapiens at all and complete skeletons let alone fragments.

Great answer...

3

No we are not. We are a design of arrogance.

OK!

3

I don't know about "superior" design, but we've lasted this long and pretty much taken over the whole damn world. So I would say we are a successful design at the least.

3

Are we a superior design compared to what?

Any other intelligence living on earth.... hmm?

@BucketlistBob I would say no. We are an awfully fragile species.

3

I would argue no we are not physically well adapted for this planet. We have adapted our planet to us.

3

As the population grows the height becomes the factor? According to the following articles a lot of it depends on climate, food, racial mixing, and prevalence of disease.

[en.wikipedia.org]

The next article would be a contradiction to the now as to 18th century. As far as man there was a time man actually became shorter, then began getting taller again.

[livestrong.com]

I'm not one to put a lot of faith in evolution from apes as a sole measure. I believe there was a genetic interference from an advanced civilization. Hence the so called missing link.

Great answer...

@BucketlistBob actually got a number of interesting hits on that search.

Look at papers written by the Monk Mendelson who is considered the father of genetics. He had posted short, tall, mixed heights and then short again. Modern theory states height is not only determined by parents but by hormones, diet, environment but also by more than 700 gene variants. How much of height is determined by genes and how much by diet and environment?

3

I dunno. Not such a great design when the nose is directly above the mouth. If humans were subject to health department inspections, that alone would get us shut down. I'm not even going to get started on the other stuff.

The nose smells bad bacteria and alerts us to possible poison.

@BucketlistBob Quite true. However, it also runs and drips. So, eww.

@KKGator lol..

@BucketlistBob The nose only smells odors, cannot tell bad bacteria from good bacteria.

@BucketlistBob amanita mushrooms look lovely, smell fresh, and are reported to taste wonderful...by those who mentioned it before they died...not a good example, IMO!

3

Amazing if you sit down and just ponder about evolution. For some reason I am attracted to taller men. I'm 5'5". Not really short but average.

Your cool. Not average at all.

You're so sweet Bob. Your wife is a lucky lady.

@sassygirl3869 your so cool Sassygirl... thank you.

3

We are a creation still in motion Yeh!

A "creation"?

Yes created through evolution!

2

Make love not war.
It is only about 4.5 million years ago that chimps, humans and bonobos diverged from a common ancestor. Chimps and bonobos share 99.9% of their genes, bonobos and humans 98.7% chimps and humans 96%.
WHat is more interesting to me is that chimps are agressive and solve differences by fighting, while bonobos solve differences with sex.

Apart from the many fossil examples of evolution of most of our development, genes -- hoxa13 and hoxd13 -- are responsible for the formation of fin rays in fish and our fingers. Similarly genes would show the development of gills in fish and our ear workings. We are taller now due to better nutrition. Men are normally taller due to hormones and yes women chose taller stronger men as do all animals for breeding.
Evolution is totally random. Most mutations die out, only very few are advantageous and they survive to eventually breed. I think we are a lucky design, and also random changes in the planetself just happened to coincide with changes in our ancestors. I wish we knew more and I wish I had the time and brain capacity to know more of it.
My concern for recent and future generations is what is the basis by which women are choosing the fathers for their children. Dumb jocks, or wealthy intelligent nerds?
I am bad I know.

Great answer...thanks

@BucketlistBob most welcome, thanks for the post, it is something I am fascinated by, so do lots of reading on it when I have time. It is good to get a trigger to make me think again.

@Rugglesby cool..

2

We could be an alien experiment or an alien prison. most animals walk on their toes apart from bears, rodents and humans. racoons are more dexterous than us with there hands and chimps have feet and hands. we are very weak pound for pound with most creatures. we are not very efficient. most of the goodness we eat doesn't get utilised and comes out the other end. we hardly use our lungs or much of our brains. we are very powerful for our size. not great climbers or great swimmers. we are very inefficient really. what we have is the capacity to adapt just like rats and crows and very unlike pandas, chimps, koala bears etc.we are of no actual use to this planet and it would do just fine without us unlike bees and trees or even algi or flies.

Cool...

And let's not forget how we need sunscreen despite supposedly evolving under it....or is that just because they invented PABA and needed to unload it?

very true

2

Added hormones and chemicals have had an effect on how humans today are. We eat food fed with growth hormones so of course we would be taller and larger than people before that. Women are naturally inclined to pick taller men because in a subconscious instinct part of the mind taller means better to protect and aid. I feel safe when being hugged by a taller man than me. Instinct.

I would not say we are superior, and as for the missing links in evolution many problems occur. Perhaps early creatures that would evolve into humans died in places we have yet to explore? Many many mysteries we haven't discovered yet. That doesn't mean we won't.

Cool answer...

2

Not reailly. I agree more with Lloyd Pye and his book, "Intervention Theory Essentials," that the earth has strong evidence of being terraformed and our DNA of being genetically engineered.

[amazon.com]

I like that answer...

2

We are the only species that naturally fouls our living space. Through pollution. So in one sense no, i don't feel superior is the best description. We are living a paradox or contradiction in my view.

Look up evolution of the opposable thumb. Good place to start .. then go back.

"We are the only species that naturally fouls our living space." Any species kept in close confinement for whatever reason will foul its living space. Aside from that, the next time you are in the habitat of the Mountain Gorillas, look into one of their used nests...most have shit the bed during the night.

When they have had to dig up bodies for whatever reason, the bodies had delayed rapid decomposition for up to five years. Determined by scientists that it was a result of all the chemicals and preservatives in the air, ground, water and thus in our food. It was discovered earlier that a newborn has not only the mother's natural antibodies delivered through the placenta but also the mothers chemical and preservative makeup from the mother's environment.

@dahermit You used a figure of speech literally ... If you maybe read between the lines you may have worked out that I was referring to the fact that we as humans actively have a really destructive effect on our environment, which no other species comes near to matching... We are essentially parasitic in planetary terms. Soooo if you are going to take every statement in life literally then I guess you will be talking about anthropology forever .. suppose I am referring to the fact (say for one example) that astute people may use water filters that now filter out the very low background traces of MDMA and cocaine .. Even hormones pollution from plastics ... I could also refer to the fact that every lifeform in the ocean recently tested without fail was positive for micro plastics which cause cancers in us and them.. Talking about the plastic island in the pacific which is now twice the size of France. It's endless and we all know it.. It wasn't created by goldfish was it ?

@Angelface I do know some stuff about microbiology so understand where you are coming from!! !! Thanks..

@Nickbeee All species have a destructive effect on their environment. They eat the grass until it is gone then move on to better pastures. When they get too many for their environment, they starve (or jump off clifts like Lemmings). Humans are no different.

@Nickbeee I lean more toward genetics and history; they mesh together almost seamlessly. I also live in the Arctic where it is in your face at times.

Cattle shit on the same grass they might, one day eat.

@dahermit Pointless conversation .. you turned a conversation into something with no point .. well done lmfao

@Nickbeee You are welcome.

@dahermit You are senile lol

@Nickbeee What do you expect from an inane foolish comment ("We are the only species that naturally fouls our living space." ) ALL species do that, it is just that some are more mobile than others. Consider ancient hunter-gatherers...it did not matter if they took a dump behind the nearest bush or rock. It only became a problem with permanent settlements. What are you going to say next...that humans are the only species that kill their own kind?

1

I think we are a run away species, like bacteria in a petri dish we will use up all of the natural resources in our closed environment and become extinct taking all of life on Earth with us as the Venus syndrome takes over this planet.

Hmmm... reall sci fi there...lol.

1

I don't understand why Design and Evolution are being mixed up as though they are interchangeable. As an atheist, I do not think that humans were designed, or that any other species was, for that matter.

Hmmm... ok. How about your take on genetics. What decided we only needed 2 eyes and 2 ears. What program in our body decided that some of us are smarter then others. Just asking on your friendly feedback?

@BucketlistBob I'm not a geneticist, so I can't give more than a layman's answer to that. I understand that natural selection has meant we, and other species, have evolved into what we are.

I'm not a neuroscientist, either. I don't know by what process the neural networks of relative intelligence are evolving.

I used to be a designer, so I know that the Design Process as we understand it is nothing to do with evolution in the natural sense.

The common factor shared by things that have evolved and things that have been designed is that the result is fitness for purpose.

Rugglesby (below) gave a more satisfactory response to your post, as you acknowledged.

1

Yes we are. We come from Hominids and look at me now mommy, We are always the superior design if we are procreating.
Everything you descibed is evolution, And monkeys, apes gorillas all come from hominids as we. Evolution broke off into other families. We , the homo sapein, are the most dominant species regarding the ability to alter the environment and with this thought we must realize, we the humans are not so darned smart or perfect at all.

EMC2 Level 8 Apr 5, 2018
1

Yes we are incredible! I recently did 23&Me and was surprised they include a report on your percentage of Neanderthal DNA. It really makes you think about this very question to figure you had ancestors that did die out and part of the reason was the low population and very difficult lives they lead.

1

As compared to...what? ROFLMAO. Just take a good look at our knee joints if you want a concrete example of Damn Poor design!

Not everyone has great knee's. Mine are shot along with my hip and back. But I'm lucky.... so many others have a bad bodied and are stuck in bed or a wheelchair. The answer is a monkey. They are the closest to our design. Evolution works in mysterious ways.

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