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What is the source of non-religious prudishness or disgust at nudity or sexuality?

skado 9 Sep 8
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12

I suspect our interpretations of the word "prudish" would vary from person to person in a social media setting. Any time my reaction might be considered prudish, it would probably be because the nudity or sexuality was introduced under what I would consider very inappropriate circumstances. For example: "Hello, my name's Bob and here's a picture of my junk!" - while I do appreciate that such directness takes all the ambiguity out of the decision to delete and block him, and is a real time-saver for me, it probably narrows the field substantially for Bob. People who want to introduce nudity or sexuality probably have more success if they demonstrate enough consideration to get to know someone and choose their moments for nudity and sexuality with a modicum of sensitivity. Just a thought.

Deb57 Level 8 Sep 8, 2020
8

Family teaching, body-shaming, bullying.... the list goes on.

Since a child, I have been mocked and shamed for being "too skinny." As a child, I made fun of my body to beat bullies to it:

"If I stick out my tongue and turn sideways, I look like a zipper."

In 7th grade, when I entered science class, boys sang loudly:

"She's a carpenter's dream... flat as a board!"

"She's a pirate's dream... a sunken chest!"

That's when I developed good posture and dignity. Head high, ramrod straight, shoulders back, I icily ignored them.

With a classic ectomorph body type, I have a fast metabolism, narrow frame, small bones and and trouble gaining muscle and weight. Didn't learn this until I began weightlifting in my 20s.

"You have a stick figure," a man said when I refused a 2nd date. Mean words sting.

Finally, I like my slender body.

Photos:

  1. Age 12 with my sister Beth, 7.

  2. Age 25, taking a break while hiking in the Olympic Mountains.

  3. Age 58, hiking Deception Creek, WA.

  4. Age 66. New haircut.

I was thin until my thyroid decided it had worked hard enough and decided to take the rest of life off-I gained sixty pounds in a month and a half while sleeping most of the time. It's effectively dead and has been for decades. On top of other autoimmune issues which make weight loss durned difficult, I'll never be skinny again. I'll settle for healthy. Turns out that I was so thin as a kid because my thyroid was burning itself out.

When I was young, I was so skinny. My dad told me, if I drank tomato juice, I'd look like a thermometer!

As someone with the opposite problem to you I understand the grief you went through. I actually had an adult sing at me when I was a teenager, "I don't want her you can have her she's too fat for me." It still stings, I was on diets from the age of 5 when I started gaining too much weight for my height. I eat healthy and control portions but I do not lose weight easily. I managed for a while but this was my daily routine,
5:30 2km walk with dog, breakfast 1/2 cup cereal skim milk,
7am ride pushbike to work (3km)
lunch salad sandwich
4pm ride pushbike home collect dog ride to the pool 7km round trip
4:30 swim 40 laps of an olympic sized pool.2km swim
7pm ride back home 4km
7:30 walk the dog 3km
9pm dinner salad with some form of protein

Oh and on Saturday I would load up a backpack with 3litres of water and a dog bowl and walk over 10km to an island so my dog could swim in the rock pool there the water was for us to drink.

I was still overweight, fit with a lot of muscle but over the weight I should be for my height. I then got very sick and despite not eating put weight on.
I teach and when we talk about healthy eating I joke that come the Zombie apocalypse I am good on one boiled egg a day but normal people are going to suffer. My thyroid tests came back within normal limits but on the low end.

People are very judgemental and blame the person for their figure (yes some people are overweight because of what they eat but when a Dr (after being told the above) said I must be doing something wrong I wanted to stab him with his scalpels.)

If someone else wants to show off their body I don't care but I don't show mine off.

@Budgie

You have my sympathy. Thank for your helpful, wise, well-written reply.

6

My prudishness is a reaction to over sexualisation of people in society and an attempt to keep my private life private. Largely it’s pretence, but I generally don’t enjoy sexist jokes especially offensive ones.
I wouldn’t know about the latter, having no disgust but a respect for others’ differences, as long as i can have mine respected.

5

Mostly I think it's the way people are raised. If you are taught that bodies in their natural state are shameful from a young age it will stick with you.

5

Personally, I'm pretty much asexual these days so it's just an annoyance. Most bodies I don't find attractive at all especially the anorexic ones that come from Hollywood or clones of Hollywood.

5

In some circumstances, bodily integrity and common decency. Nudity and sexuality are not appropriate to all circumstances and there are instances where the breach of these types of boundaries result in victimization, usually of women but also men and children.

A more important question might pertain to the source of the desire to breach these types of boundaries.

4

Ascertaining this was one of the reasons I joined this site...

Has the site been at all helpful in that regard? 🙂

@skado ...somewhat helpful...sexual attitudes here seem to not vary significantly from those of society at large...we are all "christians" ;D

4

In many cases, victimization (or even a keen awareness of victimization) may lead to a discomfort with sexuality. This is normal and natural, however unfortunate.

4

I've tried to understand this problem (and the source of it) most of my life. But luckily, I've lived in other countries enough to see that it's mostly cultural. And of course, religions usually paint a backdrop for much of the cultural bias. My most favorite place to be is Europe. I enjoy the relatively open attitudes about sex and nudity. I'm always pleasantly surprised to see nudity in movies and on TV. When I come back to the U.S. after a prolonged stay in Europe, I"m always shocked at the degree of sexual repression in our country.

4

The source is still religion.

Yep, related to jealousy and made into a sin.

@K9Kohle789 What I mean is the sense of "covering up" and being modest stems from religion. Adam and Eve were comfortably naked until they were told by "god" to cover up after they sinned by eating the apple.
It basically stems from that.

As far as the groups you mentioned, I don't frequent them either. I have zero interest in other people's sex lives. As long as those involved are capable of consent, I don't care what they do.

3

Since attitudes to nudity vary so much, it is clearly a cultural phenomena, not one which is hard wired. It is also clear that it really begins only with the onset of civilization, since most of the societies that are completely accepting of nudity are hunter gatherer societies living in extended families or small tribes. In such groups there is probably a natural meritocracy, in that it does not mater much that grandfather is ugly, if he is kind strong and wise, he will be loved and honoured anyway. With the agricultural revolution population explodes however, and society therefore becomes bigger and values shallow, obvious in short term qualities more, including appearance. People in such societies will therefore almost certainly dress up to impress and maintain status.

If that is true, then we would expect to see that the more meritocratic a society, and the more local democracy it possesses, the more accepting of nudity it would be. And anecdotal that seems to be the case. The ancient Greeks for example, regarded their accepting attitude to nudity as a sign of their freedom, and the covering up of their neighbours, in the imperial states around them, as a sign of repression and a rigid stratified class based society. ( So this is not a new thought.) And still in the classical world, Rome started out as a society widely accepting of nudity, but became increasing one where covering up was the norm, as its democracy failed and it became increasingly imperial.

And when once the norm of dressing up is established, then those who do not do so are considered exceptional and attract notice, especially sexual attention if attractive, or revulsion if poor or ugly, and so it self perpetuates. Sadly for the political nudists, this probably means that any dream of creating a fair society by promoting nudity, is just that, a dream, since acceptance of nudity probably follows from being a fair meritocratic society, not the other way round.

3

Beats me!

Finally.. someone who knows. 🤣🤣👍

3

Because when i sit down,I want something between me & the person who just vacated that seat! Duuuuhhhhh.......

Really? So you've never held a kitty or puppy in your lap? Prude equals germ-aphobe?

@MikeInBatonRouge weirdness! what does a puppy or kitten have to do with vaginal or anus secretions? And "prude"? R9FLMAO! Ask anyone.......

@AnneWimsey what they have to do with it is that they don't wear cloth s and do have those kinds of germs on them. We just aren't socialized to think about that, whereas discomfort with nudity invites rationalizing.
Anyway, actual naturists often carry hand towels with them for sitting on, out of a sense of courtesy. "Prude" was referencing the term used in the original post, which you were responding to. 🤗

@MikeInBatonRouge proving that they, too, want to avoid other's icky-ness, but they carry around a grosser-by-the- moment hand towel & I wear something stunning!
Too bad, so sad

@MikeInBatonRouge The female vagina is by design often moist. It is self cleaning and secretes fluids to fulfil this task. So if a woman sits on a chair naked those secretions are going to end up on the chair. A puppy or kitten does not seem to be designed in quite the same way and therefore does not secrete the fluids. That said some male dogs even after being desexed will and that can be an issue. If someone fails to clean their anal region adequately after going to the toilet then there is a high chance that faeces would be left behind on the chair. Most puppies and kittens take care of this (I don't let dogs lick my face and wash my hands after playing with one but generally prefer them not to lick me) and don't have the same issue as humans. It is about the bacteria and viruses that can be transmitted via these secretions more so than being prudish about the naked aspect. There are only a few of these that can be transmitted across species. As you say naturists carry hand towels to sit on even they acknowledge that people don't want to sit down where someone else's bodily secretions might be. In gyms they ask you to towel down any equipment to remove your sweat. Prude is a different concept to being concerned about the spreading of diseases/infections.

@Budgie ...so as I actually said, prudishness is a different issue from concern about germs. Hense my questioning of Anne's original explanation.

As for animals, I have male and female cats and dogs both, and I know what they are capable of "sharing." My female dog is getting older, and she spots sometimes. That doesn't mean I necessarily need to make her wear clothes, nor be offended that she shows her butt.

3

It might have come out of the Enlightenment when righteousness turned into right-thinking, in other words, when it stopped being a matter for God and more a matter of social values.

3

Reaction formation. If they're not getting any, they don't want anyone else to. All wrapped in religious dogma that takes the pleasure out of sex.

3

Some people are just uptight about such things. Who knows where it comes from if not religion.Maybe discomfort wt the more primal side of being human?

3

One not getting enough of it themselves?

Bingo!

3

That is a really good question. China has been a predominantly atheist country since 1949 yet they still have The "Group Licentiousness" law.
The PRC Government still regulates sexuality to a greater degree than the governments of Western countries. Recently, Ma Xiaohai, a 53-year-old computer science professor,[17] was sentenced to 3 ​1⁄2 years in prison[17] for organising wife-swapping events,[18] breaking the "group licentiousness law" (聚众淫乱罪).

See link to source data

[en.wikipedia.org]

2

In a way-too-simplistic explanation: Patriarchal society's values are responsible. Patriarchal religion plays a big role in reinforcing mores, but that in no way means that only religious individuals are impacted.

In cultures with rigid separation of gender codes, where women are treated as potential property of men(hello Bible) and men are taught they had better cop a certain macho attitude and image and avoid ever appearing vulnerable, lest they lose their favored status, ...preditory behavior is encouraged and sexual insecurity increases.

Historically the least prudish societies tended to be pre-agricultural/hunter-gatherer cultures, in which wealth accumulation was not a social factor and collective sharing was a matter of group survival. Pastoral and agricultural societies allowed for wealth accumulation(notion of ownership and inequality) and led to subjugation of women. In such cultures, sexual insecurity and hence prudishness abounds.

2

Insecurity of self image? Pretention? Conditioning? Bad shampoo mostly tho.

I didn’t make it clear in my post but I was thinking more of people’s reaction to others, than to themselves. Why do atheists go on the attack when another person, of their own free will, posts pictures of themselves that show too much according to the attacker?

@skado Jealous of that person's (the poster's) confidence or freedom? Jealous of another's physique? I don't think it comes from some moral judgment As much as it probably does from the commenters Personal inadequacies even if they are unrecognized. It would seem people, Religious and non religious, are only too ready to harshly judge others to protect their own false dignity by denigrating others. Often doing It projecting a sense of social duty, attempting to rationalize or justify their own behavior.

2

Many people are embarrassed by their less than perfect body.

I'm talking more about when non-religious people shame total strangers for showing too much skin.

@MissKathleen
I'm talking about when it's not.

@MissKathleen
So when it comes to having wholesome ethical values, we owe none of that to religion - we are capable of generating that out of innate good judgment, but we’re not capable of autonomously generating disgust at the sight of what we deem to be improper public display?

@MissKathleen
Children do not naturally behave sexually. But when puberty hits they seem to know instinctively what to do. We aren't born displaying every instinct we will naturally possess in maturity. Conversely, those Africans, etc. who may not condemn nudity most likely do practice religions. Why did religion not have the same influence on them? Could it be more cultural than religious?

@skado I'm dealing with this right now. My housemate is a 10-year long friend who was once a stripper. She's immobilized, due to a pain, so is naked in bed and calls me in to do or get something and it makes me very uncomfortable (even though she pulls the sheet over her). I go nude outdoors when safe to do so but am turning away from her body. I tell myself it's because of not wanting nudity to become normalized in the house (which is part of what I think she is pushing at) for the friendship's sake but I think it has more to do with not liking an older human body. I'm bi and don't like men over 40, or hairy men, either so expectation of sexual interest is part of it.

2

They all have their own reasons but for a couple of my friends it is lack of self confidence and a history of abuse. Myself, I just prefer the company of my own home. Or my partner's whenever I have one.

2

Hypocrisy, coupled with the need to exert control.

1

Religious ideas are so much a part of the western culture that it pervades everything.
Even the non-religious are affected by the religious attitude.
The idea of sin & unworthiness us deeply ingrained, culturally.
How many people complained about janet jackson's 'wardrobe malfunction' but don't give a damn about injustice? It's cultural heritage.
Women are taught to be ashamed of their bodies as a matter of control.
I agree with @nunya that most women have been abused; I've heard many stories from friends & lovers.
We must all strive to overcome all the shit that surrounds us.

1

Well, I think it's just the trauma of living. Many people are sexually abused as children, many are raped & if these things did not happen to them personally, they know at least a few that it did happen to. People you know & trust are found with child pornography, are accused by a friend of rape, or accused of sexual abuse by a child. People lie, people cheat, people physically abuse one another. It's difficult for me not to find human sexual behavior disgusting because of all of this.

Nunya Level 6 Sep 10, 2020

Good insight, thanks.

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