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Do you stand for the anthem?

What are you thoughts on saluting the flag? I always thought it was a pointless ritual similar to worshiping a rock. What really trips me out is when atheist would scoff at the notion of worshipping a God have no problems saluting the flag. Which os essentially doing the exact same thing.

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mrveggieman187 6 Apr 9
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36 comments

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7

I feel the same way . Feeling proud to be randomly born on this bit of dirt or proud for what others have done In history makes no sense to me

2

I stand but don't say anything-like at a football game.

Same here and sometimes I just go to the restroom to avoid any of it.

5

Nationalism and theism are two sides of the same coin. Both are tribalism and us vs them mentality. IMHO

Too many of us wrap ourselves in the comfortable position. It is easier to be coerced than to rebel.

^^This!! My "loyalty" is to all sentient beings and the Earth; I won't have anyone tell me what to do with my loyalty. Nationalism and patriotism are short-sighted at best, dangerous at worst.

3

I stand. But I wouldn't insist that anybody else do it. If I found a reason not to appreciate my nation, I wouldn't. S'been a while since I attended something that has opening cerimonies so the point is moot for now.

3

I do, and I don't care if someone else chooses not to. If we can't express what we believe then there is no point in standing.

I stand because it is what I believe, if someone were to force another to stand then I would sit since such a flag didnt deserve anyone standing for her.

1

Oh its not the same by any means. The flag represents something tangible. And yes, I stand as every citizen should. Now, since you have made that comparison, then in general terms for everyone, you don't like religion/God the you have the choice to quit and move on to something else. By the same token, you don't like the flag or country then go somewhere else.You know how the saying goes... You can move, you are not a tree. Last counterargument, I am not telling you what to do, just thinking out loud triggered by your question.

Really, is that the choice? You presume a lot. Obviously, you were well trained.

Not sure what that means but, I guess I was.

@Stacey48.... Yeah you're right, I was a bit off the mark.....Still I don't think the flag is the government....... Anyway, how do you propose to make changes? How does disrespecting the flag helps our case?

Why should I have to go any where? I was born, raised here and am a taxpayer. I have every right to voice my opinions as you do.

@mrveggieman187 you're correct, you don't have to (obviously), you have the right to voice your opinion as I do, like you very well said. I think this thread got off track and your initial comment is that you find pointless to salute our flag. We are going to have to agree to disagree. I will stand and salute the flag and you will do as you see fit. Should we leave it at that?

9

This poll does not include my answer… I make that determination based on the event. I see no need to protest before my children’s school performances but I won’t stand up at a sporting event until conditions improve and my sense of pride is restored.

3

The more I know about this issue the more I detest it. The flag, national anthem and pledge worship is nothing else but shallow patriotism and I want nothing to do with any of them. My late partner quit subbing for our local school because a new, Christian, principal tried to push this off on to the students. It is unconstitutional and even the Supreme Court has said no can be forced to stand or offer any abayance to this hypocrisy. To me the road to respect leads to tyranny!

Brilliantly said! I agree wholeheartedly.

@stinkeye_a I learned so much from an immigrant. Her country was basically destroyed because of shallow patriotism so she saw what religion and false idealism can do to a country. Our country is supposed to be based on individual freedom not obedience especially obedience to symbolism.

1

Respect. Everything starts with Respect.

Respect is earned. When my country earns my respect l will stand. It has along way to go.

@Sticks48 we both know there is no country without skelletons in its closet. Sometimes I "grant respect" not on the earned but on what it represent. I still Honour "the Office of the President of United States" but not the actual occupant. I talk about the many wrongs of this country of mine, you can see my posts... but an anthem, any anthem of a nation is the pure endeavour of what nation should be. But if is earned respect what you are looking for... How You are going to consider is enough Retribution for the Slaves and the Natives in which this country was built on? See? You Can Not Undo The Damage Done. As a human, any human... you can protest and I salute for it. You got my respect.

@GipsyOfNewSpain None of the things l mentioned have been fixed. We have had over 200 years to fix this stuff and we haven't. I don't respect offices or uniforms, l respect living beings period.

@Sticks48 True Nothing has been Fixed.

7

No. I don't feel pride for my place of birth. I feel pride for things that people do. I might feel pride for my country if it were to treat all people with respect and equality. We were founded as a racist country and remain so today. We have never treated women with the respect and rights that should be a birthright. When this country stops judging people by their sexual orientation. Get all of that done and l will stand.

Agreed. I'm not a fan of nationalism or patriotism. My "loyalty" is to humans, and the Earth.

1

I attend no events anymore where the anthem is played. If I did, I would probably stand.

2

I always stand for the anthem. I was a soldier so perhaps that further ingrained patriotism into my opinion.

@twshield thank you for the support!

3

I don't think I'd sit or kneel if it was something like a high school graduation and the whole place was standing. But if i were attending an NFL game where players were kneeling in protest of police getting away with shooting black men, I think I'd sit it out in solidarity. I'm against fetishizing the flag like it means more than our actual rights and freedoms. I'm kind of uncomfortable with the ritual of the pledge, but I'd pick my battles.

I don't see it as fetishizing the flag (btw, never heard that before). I see the flag as a symbol of respect for the great experiment called the United States. That's why I stand.

I'm with you, @Rangepainter: veneration of symbols feels very squicky to me!

@marga, i wouldn't assume that everyone who chooses to stand is fetishizing the flag. To me, my country is my home. We fly the flag on national holidays because it's our flag too. It doesn't just belong to one demographic of Americans. But I do believe that if someone makes a point about something as important as life and death, saying America needs to do better and calling attention to their grievance or plight by not behaving in deference to a symbol of our country, then even if I disagree, I believe in their right to do it.

2

Am a veteran and do it to honor my friends.

2

It's hard for me to stand for a country that does not want me. It's hard for me to stand for a country that invaded my island of Puerto Rico in 1898 by Gen Nelson Miles and totaly disregarded The Charter of Autonomy which granted our freedom. How can I truly stand proud when the US bombed us twice for wanting to break away from the U.S. Experimented on our women with birth control. Passed public Law 136 that made it legal to sterilize our women against they're will because white people didn't like us. Imposed Law 53 aka the gag law which made it illegal to own and wave our Puerto Rican flag or sing our national anthem or speak of separating from the US. I cannot be proud of a country who still to this day will not allow us to trade freely with other countries because of the Jones ACT and cabotage laws. Then they want us to be appreciative for what they have done.
No I cannot. And if anybody is proud of that. Then we cannot be friends.

2

I stand. I don't place my hand on my heart. I think part of the reason I stand is that I don't want to be ostracized (or worse) for not standing. I think another part of the reason I stand is lifelong habit.

I fully support anybody at any time protesting injustices in our country in any legal non-violent way that feels comfortable to them.

Same.

My (slightly drunk) uncle told me I "hate America" because he witnessed me fail to put my hand over my heart during the Pledge of Allegiance once. I didn't dare tell him I don't (willingly) participate any oaths or rituals, because I find them disingenuous and frankly, for me, fraudulent.

3

I take a different postition, I for one do love the old democratic USA, not the trump one,
I appreciate daily the freedoms we have and with that do not wish to participate in the traditional must stand stuff. If my feet are tired I continue sitting. IT is like those that go to church on easter and christmas. What is the point if you turn around and spit on the busses of children seeking love

EMC2 Level 8 Apr 9, 2018
2

I personally stand for the anthem and will recite the pledge. Although, I'm not very keen on the wording of the pledge. I do it out of respect for tradition more than anything else. However, I stand firmly behind anyone who chooses not to.

1

I don't stand for the anthem. If I happen to be already standing, I don't say anything. I also don't participate in 30 seconds of silence.

1

I do, I was raised that way, we lost a generation of our family in WW1 so it is pretty much entrenched.

2

When I was in the military we stood and we saluted the flag as the anthem played. I remember that I was sworn to protect the country for which the flag stood. Nobody said anything about protecting the flag, but it had to be treated honorably. These days I may or may not stand for the anthem. If you think the government is not giving you a fair shake then take a knee if you will. It's your choice. I know that I'm a Patriot and that John McCain is a Patriot. Bone Spurs is not a Patriot. He's just a spoiled little rich boy that tweets and stirs up trouble.

1

I think I’ve always seen saluting the flag as a commitment to each other, rather than a commitment to a god.

3

I've never really felt the need. I live closer to another country and am 3000 miles from the next closest US state. When I fly out to other states there is always a geographical and geothermal disconnect, not including the time change.

2

I don't agree with ANY ritual preceding ANY civil public meeting or spectator entertainment or sporting event.

That said, IF im in attendance I'll stand out of respect for those voluntarily exercising secular mass freedom of expression. People can always try to arrive late enough to miss the rituals but on time for the meeting or event. One also has the restroom option if you're early for good seats.

For prayer nosense in those circumstances I'll sit or remain seated. That crap has no place at secular gatherings save advertising and I don't stand for advertising either.

2

Stand, sit, kneel....the point is, if you live in America and you don't like it here, you can always liquidate your assets and find another country that will tolerate you.
I served in the military and I know this country has its problems like any other.
But this country is about being unified and even though I'm agnostic, I still know that "god" means "all of us", not just a man with a white beard sitting in the sky.

So basically don't have a dissenting opinion or a mind of your own and if you do leave. Got ya.

This country has problems that it shouldn't...crappy education, social security issues, failing health care system, SSI, failing infrastructure, i.e. buildings, roads...politicians don't give a shit, I was a Marine myself, a smart Marine with both eyes wide open. I have lived in other countries, so please stop handing out that B.S. "if you don't like it here, leave"...cause WE are the ones trying to make it a better place for our children.

@Agr8m8 I agree. I think as members of this country, we should protest and often, we should use our votes, not stand around as we slide down that slippery slope while chanting make America great...
This country is at the bottom of the barrel in every international ranking. Last year in the WHO report of developed nations, we slipped seven places to #48. This makes us great?

@Agr8m8 I'm not going anywhere and will continue to exercise my freedom of speech

The following is a good example of what's wrong with this country. From the president's Fox mouthpiece, "Black kid applies and is accepted into 20 colleges and universities. Fox newscasters say its obnoxious and wrong?"

[twitter.com]

I was in the military. My father served in WW ll. My grandgather served in both world wars. Being in the military has nothing to do with it. The country either treats all of its citizens with respect and in an even hand or it doesn't. We don't. That is all that matters, period!

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