I’d like to get members opinions and thoughts and feelings about agnostic theists; of which I am one. I don’t KNOW if an entity was the first cause or if there even was a first cause but the Kalam really makes one think. I have all kinds of doubts due to the problem of evil and the suffering in the world.
8
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The premise might be wrong: maybe the universe always existed. The Big Bounce theory (as opposed to the Big Bang) postulates the universe is in an eternal cycle of expansion and contraction.
If you then say, 'Yes but how can that be? It must have had a beginning,' to that many would say, 'Well then 'god' must have too.'
'But god didn't HAVE a beginning,' to which they would say, 'Then maybe the universe didn't either.'
After all, energy can be neither created nor destroyed...
Storm1752
Level 8
Oct 15, 2020
1
Finally admitting that there is no 'Supreme Being' you can understand why there are good and evil people in the world.
sterlingdean
Level 6
Oct 19, 2020
0
It seems me that by your statement that you conclude that people who "admit" that there is no Supreme Being somehow have better understanding of why there are good and evil people in the world. How does admitting that there is no Supreme Being lead better understanding of why there are good and evil people in the world?
@tactic8 It is my opinion that people who want to believe that we were all created by some all seeing, all benevolent, all powerful being can't logically explain how such a being could create evil. Yes, it would have to be the creation of that being since, according to them, nothing existed before it. Without that problematic belief, you can understand that some people a. are out to get whatever they want regardless of who it hurts, b. Have power over others, and/or c. take pleasure in others' misery. You don't have to reconcile with that foolish remark about 'free will' that so many theists use.
Evil is caused either by nature or mankind. Kalam, or any religious tenant, doesn't mean anything. Man is inherently evil. We want or need so we take. If it is not given, we take by force. This is not to say that evil can't be overcome by good. It can... But rarely.
RiverRick
Level 7
Oct 19, 2020
0
You are mistaken. Man is a social creature and meant to live in groups. Evil is not inherent, empathy and care for others like us is.
@sterlingdean He spoke of evil and suffering... Put 5 people in a room for 1 week with no food. Then, put in 1 plate with food and see what happens. Sharing won't happen most likely. Man has always conquered and taken what he wants. History is filled with the stories.
Darn! Who wants to try to talk to that bald asshole! He talks over both the lady and the caller. His style turns one off completely.
AgnoBill
Level 7
Oct 17, 2020
0
I could care less about STYLE
I care about TRUTH
Could you elaborate? What does the Kalam really makes you think?
Rodatheist
Level 7
Oct 16, 2020
0
The Kalam makes me question why there is anything at all; though I've heard the thermodynamic thing a bit and that energy may have always existed.
@tactic8 Yes, “why is there anything at all” is an excellent question. But what I was wondering is: what in the Kalam makes you think that there was or there is an entity that was the first cause?
@Rodatheist I don't know if there is a conscious entity that is the first cause, or not. Does anybody know one way or the other?
@tactic8 I’m sorry but you were the one who started by saying that “I don’t KNOW if an entity was the first cause or if there even was a first cause but the Kalam really makes one think.” as if you are saying that the Kalam really makes you think that there is an entity that was the first cause. I know by the way of reason that there is no such entity; but you are the theist and that is why I was asking what in the Kalam made you think that there is such an entity?
Any and all of any combination of theist, agnostic, and atheist are all of a kind: religious literalists. They either believe, don’t believe, or believe it can’t be known whether a literal God exists. All of it depends on the presence or absence of a belief in a literal God.
The other kind - religious figuratism - doesn’t depend on the presence or absence of belief. It is an observable, historic fact. Metaphor exists.
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skado
Level 9
Oct 15, 2020
0
Agnostic theist? Might work? You do not know if gods exist, but you would consider it true that they do exist but agnosticly it could never be known?
I have no ideal what Kalam is.
I know "There is good and there is evil."
Word
Level 8
Oct 15, 2020
0
You say you "have no idea" what Kalam is. Neither did I, but it took me about three minutes to find out, since I have the most powerful computer ever created at my fingertips at a moment's notice.
You remind me of people who profess not to know of crop circles, or reincarnation, or any number of things, but apparently certain of their nonexistence, when a few taps of the keyboard would enlighten them...are you REALLY that lazy, or willfully ignorant, or both?
I thought so.
@Storm1752 I like when people type "SP?" Just look it up...
Well, on this, if you ask me if I believe in God, I say no. If you ask me if there is a God, I say I don't know. With all the shit around the world I don't think the chances of the existence of a deity like described in the so called holy books are that big.
Paddypereira
Level 7
Oct 15, 2020
0
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