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What do you all make of kneeling for the anthem?

I've followed this with interest, and would like to hear the opinions of American atheists/agnostics please.

Kreig 7 Dec 1
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21 comments

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21

I'm a veteran of the United States Military, and an ex-cop to boot. I was and always will be proud to have served my country, our country. So what I'm about to say, I say as someone who served, as someone who placed his life at risk for our nation, and as a patriot.
Here's how it is. The flag, anthem and military have nothing to do with football, so if you object to having these things shoehorned into the sport, then any objections you may have about the take a knee protest relating to taking place while you are trying to watch the game may hold as valid. However if you don't object to the flag waving, national anthem and military displays being shoved down the throats of the players and the fans, then any objections you may express are specifically against the protesters and what they're protesting. Since they're protesting the kind of institutionalized racism that has led to people of colour, innocent of any wrong doing being killed, your objections can only be interpreted as a discomfort with the notion of treating ALL Americans equally, regardless of ethnic background, or anything else for that matter.
The truth is, equality only feels like oppression to the privileged.
So if you want to honour the service of we who risked all for your freedom, don't disparage those who fight for equality for all Americans.
They're not protesting the flag,
They're not protesting the military,
They're not protesting the anthem,
They're bringing injustice into the light,
They're protesting institutionalized racism,
They're exercising their 1st amendment rights,
Their action is respecting what the flag represents,
Their protest is giving a voice to those who have none,
They're being peaceful, respectful and above all, patriotic!
Because Real Americans don't stand for Injustice and Evil!

Well said!

Fantastic comment !! You are so right, that's the point people have not even noticed seemingly!? Why on earth is the National Anthem and militarism even part of a ball game !! Well noticed mate !!

Ok brother... You win. Your opinion counts just as much as mine. Im old school Vietnam. I saw enough, been in some situations, had Jane Fonda and her group spitting on us at the airport. You know I can go on about some of my brothers name on the wall. Im sure you had your of stuff where you were. I work with all people of color over there. We became friends. I'll leave it at that. I see you list of accomplishments. That's cool. A guy goes to a football game that cost him $350.00 a ticket and has to sit at the top. I've been there. I tell you it's sad it cost so much. My troops stop going. We boycotted the NFL for our on selfish reasons. I don't know what to say other you win.

17

As an Army veteran of both wars, I couldn’t care less. They could scratch their asses through the Anthem if they wanted to. This fake patrolism from the right disgusts me. If you care about veterans, stop making wounded ones.

Marz Level 7 Dec 1, 2017

And start helping the broken ones. 😟

14

Had Tom Brady kneeled at the anthem and announced he was praying for his mom when she had cancer, the whole stadium probably would have joined him. And what about those who locked arms, people didn't seem to mind that? How is this different from kneeling? They both use the anthem to send some sort of message.
The notion of disrespecting the military is a red herring. The real reason people are upset at kneeling for the anthem is because this is what Colin Kaepernick did when he announced he was protesting police brutality of blacks; people just don't want to hear it.

godef Level 7 Dec 1, 2017

Well said! I would love to have had this memorized for my Thanksgiving dinner with family lol

I couldn't have said it better.

I could go for that...

9

I don't think it's necessarily effective, but I support their right to protest — and taking a knee is one of the most benign and respectful forms of protest that I can think of. I think there's much ado about nothing.

@MrLizard: When I said I'm unsure it's effective, what I mean is what effect it has on reducing police shootings of unarmed Black men, bringing about judicial reform so perpetrators of such violence are brought to trial, etc. I'm hopeful it has real impact, but afraid nothing will change.

Yes, it might be a slow process, but it has to start somewhere. The point is to put the message out there and make people aware of injustice. Unfortunately, a lot of people try to spin it with the disrespect angle which we agree is nonsense, but at the same time, it does continue to have life. Trump is such an idiot that he doesn't realize that his rants only continue to make this a topic of conversation.

Oh, I think Trump is getting exactly what he wants: controversy and division.

6

Imo, people who are upset or offended over people taking a knee are control freaks. "They are disrespecting the flag." It's a piece of cloth. I don't get it. Is a song and flag more important than human lives? No one is getting hurt while others kneel.

6

I do what most Americans do... stay home and not pay for the high price to be at a game. I don't bother to stand up nor do I take a knee. I just sit on my arse... LOL

Why'd you even bother making a comment if you don't having anything to add?

I disagree... this comment shows a third choice, sitting on your arse. It is also something I've observed at a Sports Bar, at Trump supporters' home... they just sit on their arse, too. After all the debate about people taking a knee, when at home during the national anthem, they sit on their arse, too. It's a point to show, it is NOT about respecting a flag or vets.

5

I support their right to do so, but the horrible president uses this against you. He is a sick man who shouldn't be in the White House.

5

I don't see billionaires like Trump, Mnuchin or Tillerson sending their sons and daughters to serve in the military!!!

Bone spurs, I'm sure!

4

I'm proud of anyone who honestly stands up against corrupt, oppressive entities.

4

its personal choice and in the song it says land of the free

4

Taking a knee is another form of showing respect.

4

Gosh I remember in the UK when they used to play the national anthem at the end of a film in the cinema and people used to stand up!! Not joking!! That would never happen today thank fook

4

There is a growing group of people that have bastardized what the symbol originally was, and have poisoned people against its purpose—stop the police (and others) from getting away with killing innocent people of color.

I ask you, what is so wrong about treating people fairly?

That is what its opposers are fighting. These opposers do not want equal rights—safety, pay, respect—for people different than them. They hope people who don’t sin the way that they do (the poor, non-whites), continue to die by the hand that is paid to protect them (the police).

Also, since you probably don’t know...it hasn’t been but fifteen years or so since sports teams were on the field for the anthem. It’s a relatively new thing. No historical meaning at all.

3

As a patriot and as a veteran, I consider it a respectful response.

Have to say I see it as a kind of Pavlovian conditioned response. How is patriotism served by enacting some kind of action when a particular peice of music is played? What would happen if you didn't respond in that way? Would your patriotism become less?

2

I think it's much ado about nothing. The protest itself definitely isn't nothing. The players are kneeling to draw attention to police brutality, racial profiling and discrimination, all issues which should be addressed, discussed and changed. The nothing is the controversy. Our supreme court settled the matter over forced gestures of patriotism the back in the 1940's. This case extends to and protects the protesting players. So the legality of the players protesting isn't even a question. The cretin in our oval office is trying to confound this issue with patriotism by alledging the players are protesting the anthem and our military. This is just ridiculous as the entire movement was suggested by a veteran.

2

They absolutely have the right and I agree they have a cause worthy of protest. I do disagree with their timing.

It’s not a protest if it doesn’t make people uncomfortable.

Should they rent a hall and schedule to have their protest there? Would you go?

These guys are in front of a camera their entire career. A game last for hours and they want to protest for the two minutes citizens are paying their respects. I've seem some veterans say they could care less and some it's just pissed off as it has me. I compare it to flag burning. It's just unpatriotic in my opinion. . Hold up a sign before or after, say somthing about your cause everytime your on camera, but when it comes time to show your appreciation for those who served and gave their lives to make it possible for you to be able to protest you need to show some f$&@&ing respect. There's plenty of other times, ways and places. I've not heard one person say it furthered their cause but I have heard a lot folks say their not watching the games any longer. So congratulations protesters, good timing.

2

@MrLizard It certainly seems to be effective as it's pissing a certain sorta person off and that's surely the entire point! It would not work as a protest if it didn't annoy anyone at all surely?

Hmmm.... oppressed? I just don't see it. Sure, there's some wrong doing going on for all races. Even the Caucasian have a story to tell. You ever go to new orleans jail? You ever been robbed? You know more then 5 females that have been raped. How many men do you know that have been raped? Who's waiting for you when you go to prison? Oppressed! You make yourself oppressed. It happens in all cultures. Whites get runned over just like the others. Whites get shot just like the others. I got a different oppinion. You ever live on the streets? We're all the same here. Most people get ruffed up during an arrest because they will not listen or stop and lay down. I don't dought that you have seen things too. Ive heard so many different stories by real people in real pain that has been abused by .... the oppressed. I like how people judge me.

2

@Krieg It used to be on at the end of the only tv channel for ages as well!!

2

If a crippled war Vetern crawled out of a wheel chair and got to his knees. Then yes on that kneeling. There's a time and a place to protest. Not on a ball field. Thats not only a disgrace to my flag, but to me and everyone on the field that has to see it.

You got rights, sure, I agree. I got a right to stand up and pledge my country I fought for. Did any of these guys fight for their freedom or are they disgruntled because it aint going the way they think it should? If they got a problem then take it to their Congressman or senator. Don't take it to me and criticize my honor. I didn't harm them. I fought for them. Not for their right to spit on me. I take this personally and for the troops that fought and died. They are my heroes. These guys just play ball.

They are not protesting the flag, and certainly not the military. They are protesting systemic injustice that undermines what the flag stands for and the fredom and justice the military fights for. People are recasting the protests as anti-American in order to distract from the very real problems in our society.

If it sounds like a Trump voter...

0

I am an avid NFL fan-they are exercising their freedom of speech vs racial injustice-I am all for it

0

Time out to do your ironing.

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