SnowyOwl posted a thread about mortality/ethics, and this article discusses whether or or not religious people are more "moral" than are atheists. This caught my eye:
"When researchers ask people to report on their own behaviors and attitudes, religious individuals claim to be more altruistic, compassionate, honest, civic and charitable than nonreligious ones. Even among twins, more religious siblings describe themselves are being more generous.
But when we look at actual behavior, these differences are nowhere to be found. [. . .]
This finding has now been confirmed in numerous laboratory and field studies. Overall, the results are clear: No matter how we define morality, religious people do not behave more morally than atheists, although they often say (and likely believe) that they do."
Go figure.
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Of course, ethics and morality are subjective to the societies, cultures and sub-cultures that create them.
Sofabeast
Level 7
Nov 15, 2021
0
@Gwendolyn2018 I think of our respective leaders/ex leader - Boris and Trump. Both divorced, serial philanderers and liars.
Yet whatever they do, they get away with. Even twenty years ago, Trump would be unelectable and Boris could not progress beyond being a novelty politician.
Life within a bubble of imaginary rules and characters - "alter" ego, if you will.
tinkercreek
Level 8
Nov 14, 2021
3
The religious think people are intrinsically bad, evil, sinful, and need the "cleansing blood of the lamb" and a raft of parables, laws, and wise biblical sayings (as interpreted by their resident holy man) to come around to acting selflessly, when they really do it, INCLUDING BELIEVERS, because of an inner morality that doesn't come from a book.
Storm1752
Level 8
Nov 13, 2021
4
@Gwendolyn2018 You know, they're so screwed up they don't know what to think or do. Are they empathetic to those "outside the fold," as the Bible instructs, or are these unfortunates in the throes of unclean spirits, so should be shunned? There's no way to know, because the book's greatest strength is also it's greatest weakness: its ambiguity.
The most politically powerful bloc, though, are all hellfire and retribution right now, girding their loins for a holy war...yeehah!
If you can't convince yourself that you are better because of what you believe, why believe it?
RussRAB
Level 8
Nov 13, 2021
4
@Gwendolyn2018 - The real problem with people who think like this is two fold - 1: they wouldn't really do the things the say they would want to do even if they didn't believe (they are fooling themselves); and 2: if they would the immoral things, they often find a way to do them anyway and will sometimes use some aspect of their beliefs to justify it.
The duplicity and self-delusion of such believers comes as no surprise to me. They have a need to feel superior to unbelievers - it's a way of bolstering their inferior egos.
anglophone
Level 9
Nov 13, 2021
6
The big elephant in the tiny church is the religious do it for a reward or to avoid punishment. Take away heaven and hell and watch how many rush out the door. True morality includes a high degree of altruism.
JackPedigo
Level 9
Nov 13, 2021
5
@Gwendolyn2018 How can one fear something that isn't there.
@Gwendolyn2018 Some time ago I started noticing that as people age they seem to become more and more paranoid (and I'm starting to feel that myself). During these times I suspect the paranoia is probably at record numbers. What's the expression, smell the rose and blow out the candle. lol
@Gwendolyn2018 sounds like me, you bet, it can be a real pain. Good thing we have this site.
When your personal view is based on believing a series of lies and logical fallacies it is easy to add one more. They have to “feel” superior to support their view of themselves. That the evidence does not support their belief is an important reinforcement of their beliefs.
Detritus
Level 7
Nov 13, 2021
5
As an atheist I have clocked in over 10,000 hours of voluntary public service.
It's something I don't do now that I'm older and don't have the energy, but I do miss it.
After my divorce I was in a great deal of emotional pain, and I've learned the best way to help myself is to find someone to help.
Now that I don't have the health to just go sign up for events I'm stuck having to deal with my issues internally which makes the process of dealing with my shit much more difficult.
If I had money I'd give it to those in need.
The last year or so I've taken to feeding the wildlife around my office, for the same reasons.
Morality to me is action and about my psychology neither of which have jack to do with anything superstitious or divine.
Willow_Wisp
Level 8
Nov 13, 2021
14
Good for you. I used to do a lot more volunteering. I worked a phone line for many years, using reflective listening. I found being non religious allowed me to get through to so many more people. One year, the governor even sent me a certificate for my many hours (I think it used to look good on a resume, not so sure anymore).
Wow, someone who keeps track. In a lot of my volunteer work I either kept records of my time (for grant purposes) or had to keep track of others time. The one thing most people hate is paperwork. They just want to do the work and leave and don't realize how important time keeping is. Just a rough guesstimate I'll bey my time matches yours as I was volunteering long before I retired.
@JackPedigo I cleaned up after a lot of municipal events in the LA area. I even helped the City of Long Beach build their Pride float. Honestly I didn't keep track of the time, the agency I was working with did and gave it to me in some documents when I told them I wasn't going to be able to participate anymore. Some of it was being cashier at a thrift store, a lot of it was recycling, the rest was setup and cleanup of events, or just municipal cleanup in many when there weren't any events. Oh and moving people that couldn't afford a moving company, there's a lot of people moving to more and more modest accommodations.
@Willow_Wisp LOL so someone, like me, kept track of your time.
From my observations, the morally righteous are filled with hypocrisy. There is more hatred, prejudices, and violence coming from the most religious communities. The most extreme fundamentalists, no matter their religious persuasion - christian, muslim, hindu, even buddhist, etc.
Beowulfsfriend
Level 9
Nov 13, 2021
7
This is true. As for me, I am not worried about morality in any way. You make your own morality in how you deal with others. Discussing it with the religious is a no win situation.
DenoPenno
Level 9
Nov 13, 2021
7
Morality is proven and tested by actions, not words and beliefs. As Jesus himself said, to paraphrase, "Talk is cheap". And, as a poli sci professor once said, so eloquently, "Until you have power and are tempted to use it corruptly, I don't really know who you are, morally and ethically, because you haven't been tested yet".... Very profound words.
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