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LINK The Benefits of Claiming "Atheism" for Atheists Should Not Be Ignored

The article is America focused, but I agree with this point:

"... far too many atheists avoid the term altogether, referring to themselves as "non-believers," "brights," "freethinkers," or "agnostics." In some ways, I see this as a neglect of our responsibility and argue that standing by an accurate definition of atheism is in our interest. Within our community and without, we face a bewildering variety of definitions. Confusion over the meaning of atheism is an important obstacle to increased acceptance of atheists in society. "

I would like to agree with the author that "..In fact, we are all born atheists because we have not encountered any theistic concepts before birth", if only I could. I fear that some are born wired to believe in mysticism, and religion is the most socially acceptable form of that.

David1955 8 Nov 14
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13 comments

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2

All my life I've told people I'm an atheist. "Agnostic" is too wishy-washy and in my case, untrue.

I don't want people to think I'm open to being converted.

Quite. I have always thought agnostic a non position, actually. If someone asks me if I believe in fairies, I say no, because there is no evidence. That's my position. I don't say, well I don't know, and I'm not sure if I can know if fairies exist or not. That would sound ridiculous and not a clear position. God, gods, fairies.... the same logic applies.

2

I agree, if you are an Atheist then be proud of it, you probably had to go through a lot of trouble and turmoil from believers so why bend the knee and accommodate them by going along with their delusion that their zombie god, burning bush god, blue skinned multi armed god, etc. is in charge and the majority are adoring fans? Fuck these delusional idiots and their hate filled hypocrisy, all dripping in artificial sweetener. So much of what is wrong in this world comes from this delusional thinking and it is important to push back when confronted on the topic, so they know that there is a growing percentage of the population that rejects these childish and antiquated notions.
For those Atheists who don't have the intestinal fortitude to stand up for their belief that religion is a bunch of rubbish, that's okay too but don't throw bricks at those of us who do stand up, that's just deplorable.

0

Who cares? Seriously? What's the difference?

1

I think the biggest benefit is not having to do any Xmas shopping....☺️

3

I don't agree at all. First because I hate labels, and because the reality is I do not believe in bullshit, ergo to say I am a non believer is not only accurate but true and correct. We are all born without a believe, except that we are completely dependant on our caretakers/parents, and thus we will rely on them for survival, the brainwashing is all done by them and also by society. To talk of "a belief before birth" is really asinine, no endoctrination can happen "before" birth, our minuscule brain can hear heartbeats or music which will soothe us due to the familiarity, but from there to even try to say that I remember being taught about any of the bullshit religious crap even before I was born, is just ludicrous.

No one is saying belief before birth. However people may be predisposed towards certain attributes, like belief in supernatural phenomena, and this may be neurological. This is basically the nature verses nurture debate. I don't have a fixed view on this, but is something that researchers are looking into. For myself, I simply can't hide within the questionable comfort of the view that we are all born atheists, no matter how much I might like to believe it.

@David1955 We are born atheist, you have to learn religion. I doubt we are born hard wired to believe the supernatural.

@David1955 funny because that is what you textually said, but regardless, nobody is wired to believe in anything one doesn't know, all is learned.

3

I am perfectly happy to educate theists about atheism. My definition of atheism matches that in the article. My issue is that theists have the gall to tell me what my atheism is, and they also conflate it with all manner of unrelated matters, also as described in the article.

2

The word "atheist" was first used in the 17th century to describe people who did not follow the Christian religion.Surely we have moved on since then. Call the god botherers anything you like and just let the rest us be.

A little earlier: The etymological root for the word atheism originated before the 5th century BCE from the ancient Greek ἄθεος (atheos), meaning "without god(s)"

@David1955 Yes the root of the word is from classical Greek but the word was not used until much later. There were probably very few non theists before that.

@Moravian very few open atheists perhaps, due to the repression of religion. Either way, there have been atheists around since the dawn of time, we can assume and certainly it wasn't first used in the 17th century.

@David1955
atheist (n.)
1570s, "godless person, one who denies the existence of a supreme, intelligent being to whom moral obligation is due," from French athéiste (16c.), from Greek atheos "without god, denying the gods; abandoned of the gods; godless, ungodly," from a- "without" (see a- (3)) + theos "a god" (from PIE root *dhes-, forming words for religious concepts).

3

I have to hold my hands up and say that I do just the opposite. If I was bothered about labels, then I would put myself down as an Agnostic Atheist Broad Church Sceptic, but for the most part if asked I will just say atheist. Because it is simple and people tend to understand it, but I live in Europe, where the is not the stigma attached to it there is perhaps in the US.

Exactly.

@MikeInBatonRouge thank you.

2

I'm an agnostic atheist. Agnostic = lack of knowledge any gods exist, atheist = lack of belief any gods exist. I see no problem with saying one is a nonbeliever.

Me too! I identify fully as both parts. Even more, I identify as secular humanist, because that is actually a philosophy and value system, as opposed to a void or negation. But they are all valid.

6

I just finished reading the posted article. I have to say the author spent a lot of words stating some obvious things (to me) that I agree with, which is just fine, but to a doubtful aim.

I personally agree with the basic goal of reclaiming the term "atheist." But the label itself is not more important than the message that we want religious adherents to open their minds to critical thinking, to question their blind faith assumptions that have perpetuated so much dangerous anti-science sentiment and hateful, sometimes murderous animus toward various diversity minorities.

It seems to me the author is preposing we make a concerted point of identifying as atheist.

I say if one does that right from the outset of every new encounter, in many cases, the only thing accomplished will be that the other person(s) will instantly be critical and prejudiced against everything we have to say on the subjects of reason and of religion. I find that counter-productive, ESPECIALLY given what the author acknowledges as true, that there already exist many harsh, anti-atheist distortions.

The productive approach, in my view, is to talk about content, ideas, concepts, more than labels, and if the person we are talking to expresses some receptivity to the idea that "god" is likely a notion imagined and defined by humans with their own agendas, then apply the atheist label, WITH a clear definition of what we mean by it.

As a mental health counselor, I have talked to tons of people about their basic spiritual orientation, and I can say with certainty that there is a huge variety in the choice of labels that people who are not particularly religious apply to themselves.

We indeed sound like arrogant s.o.b.s if we strike a strident tone dismissive of the various labels. Agnostic, freethinker, secular humanist, non-religious, spiritual-but-not-religious....etc. all these terms have histories and reasons behind their use, and they do not negate the term atheist, as the author suggests. They instead each speak to subtly different questions that are valid points in their own right.

By all means, seek opportunities to educate on atheism's broad, simple meaning. It is a good one. But don't fall for the red herring issue that these various labels have to be at odds with each other or that only one can be "the right one." That just isn't true and distracts from the more important task of getting religious thinkers to start questioning and seeing through the destructive Dogmas of their religious indoctrination.

Yes I know what you mean. I considered the point that this might seem like trying to impose the same label to everyone. But what I think the author has in mind is that there are people who really are atheists but are afraid of the label, so they call themselves these other terms to avoid the atheist tag. He's saying I think don't do that and stand up because it's honest and it's good for atheism. Now people who call themselves agnostic or something else and have a lot of arguments for that are different, it seems to me. I'm also aware that he's talking about America, where negative attitudes towards atheism are absurd, and just like other groups who have stood up against negative stereotyping now take their place in this country, atheists need to do the same thing.

@David1955 In my opinion, being an Atheist and STATING that one is an Atheist is NOT labelling oneself nor placing a label upon yourself IT is however, showing your PRIDE in your Individuality, your ability/abilities to see Truth where fiction dwells and to be a person and stand on your OWN 2 feet rather than be one of the millions of SHEEPLE.
AND I AM PROUD TO BE AN ATHEIST AND TO STATE TO ANYONE AND EVERYONE THAT I AM AN ATHEIST.

@David1955 I hope you are right, because I agree with your take on the issue. I just didn't see that distinction made by what he actually wrote. I responded, because I have repeatedly heard on this forum the term "agnostic," specifically, bashed over and over as being a cop out, or signifying confused people who want to believe in sky-daddy, or whatever. But that definition is bullshit for many people who call themselves agnostic. As with the term "atheist," there are two or three differing definitions. I get tired of hearing either term dismissed by mischaracterization. It is counter-productive sniping, along the lines of progressives bashing liberals, or vice versa, when there are far more relevant foes trying to destroy us all.

BTW, agnostic and atheist are not at all exclusive labels/identities. Agnostic atheism is "a thing."
[en.m.wikipedia.org]

@Triphid Oh, it's a label, whether you are proud or not. Be PROUD, but realize for many people in many situations, particularly in workplaces, it puts a target on their back, especially in many parts of heavily Republican "'Murika."
BTW, American atheists, voting Republican at this point in our precarious demoracy's history? Really??? I can only assume certain other values you hold are overriding your concern for living free from theocratic rule.

Learn to pronounce la·bel
/ˈlābəl/
noun

#2
a classifying phrase or name applied to a person or thing, especially one that is inaccurate or restrictive.
"my reluctance to stick a label on myself politically"

@MikeInBatonRouge Well, in case it slipped your Southern U.S.A, mind or you just couldn't read/bother to read my profile, I am NOT in the United State of Absurdity, I am an Australian, born, bred and have lived all my life.

@Triphid it did not, but "some" participants on this thread will be viewing it from different national perspectives. The "'Murikan" comment was not for you, Triphid, rather a side thought, as I am aware of some GOP- oriented folks on this site. It is a term we non-Trumpy/non-White-nationalist types use to refer to those other 40-ish percent. Non-Americans may not get that there is a distinction in this deeply polarized country. It is "a thing" here.
...and I am not a Southerner, btw. I just live here now. But thanks for being presumptuous. 😘

@MikeInBatonRouge It is a psychologically know fact that the attitudes, behavioural patterns, etc, etc, can be 'adopted', for need of a simpler term, by someone who , though originating from elsewhere and mostly different, over a period of time.

@Triphid, of course "it can." That certainly does not mean it consistently is. Do you have a point, other than presuming, as you directly implied with your earlier comment, that that applies to me? Because it doesn't in this case. I was far more impacted by my time living in Germany, and by attending university, 6 years for two degrees, and connecting with and coming to identify with the lgbtq community. There are a lot of shitty, small-minded, evangelical-driven bigotry flowing here in the Bible Belt, and yet, I am impressed by how I have met and gotten to know numerous Southern natives also broad-minded, insightful, and also disgusted by fundamentalist fueled bigotry.

I realize my earlier reply to you jumped topic on my own impulse without clearly articulating that I was addressing a particular agnostic.com subset of American politically consertive atheists/secularists on this sight, and NOT that I was considering you one of them, so sorry about that confusion.

Sure is lucky there is no such thing as a conservative, prejudiced Australian! Very reassuring, indeed that those only exist in the American Bible Belt! Yeah. 🙄

6

Unfortunately, the hate propaganda put out by the Christians has worked. The true definition of atheism has been obscured by the Christian definition. Fortunately, their pervasive hate campaign against everyone else is, at last, being recognized, along with their hypocrisy of ignoring their own precepts. The latter is a message atheists should echo, along with the honesty of atheism and the alignment with scientific facts.

6

I'm an atheist, and I've never had a problem identifying myself as such.

I do believe that we are all born atheists.
Whether some of us are "wired" to be indoctrinated or not, is irrelevant.
All gods are myths and all religion is a scam.
I know this is true because there is absolutely no credible and verifiable evidence to the contrary.
I'm not even going to pretend to be "unsure".
Unless and until, such evidence is presented and proved factual, I KNOW
it's all bullshit.

Well yes, religion is always a scam, but I feel depressed to think that there will always some people born who 'need' religion to psychologically self- medicate or whatever. I would love to be wrong about that, but science is catching up on this subject and it seems they are showing that some are born with that predisposition.

@David1955 I've stopped feeling bad about it.
I just hope they are culled from the herd sooner rather than later.

For the sake of the argument I never pretend that I am "unsure." Regardless of my background I finally came to the stage of knowing there is no evidence for a god. None! The reason people on shows like The Atheist Experience claim they are unsure and open, but you can produce your evidence is one reason only. If you make a claim that there is no god then the burden of proof falls on you. That brings us back to no evidence again.

Well, I have helped in the Delivery of some 167 and still counting human babies and NEVER ONCE have I seen a baby emerge from the womb via Caesar section or from the Birth Canal praying, holding a bible or wearing a cross or any other religious regalia.
Though I must admit that I have heard many a about to become Mother utter words such as " Fucking Jesus, these contractions are really hurting/pissing me," or, as she glares at her spouse/partner she screams " Jesus Fucking Christ, next time one of us gets pregnant it going to you NOT me."
And to be complete 100% straight forward, I've heard much much worse come from the mouths of the religious Mothers about to be than from the Non-believer Mothers about to be.

@DenoPenno I've heard that argument before.
However, I always disagree.

Saying unicorns are real is ludicrous.
If someone says something exists, it's on them to prove.
If believers can't provide proof of their assertions, it's not on me to prove there's no 'there' there.
There just isn't. I don't have to prove a damned thing.

@KKGator To prove something does not exist, you'd have to be All-Knowing. In other words, to prove that God does not exist, you'd have to be God! 😉

@nicestuff I disagree. If there is no proof of a thing existing, it is not necessary to prove it doesn't exist.

@KKGator I agree - and agreed.

4

We are born with no beliefs in anything. To me, atheism is a conscious choice, not the absence of any beliefs.

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