Add to that the so-called agnostic conservatives who like to post to this website. For whatever reason they seem to ignore the fact that their fellow conservatives are making lives more miserable for them as non-believers.

@p-nullifidian We lost our democracy with the Citizens United case and the Dark Money.

@p-nullifidian Indeed they are. I have first hand experience.

@p-nullifidian I don't ignore that fact that the Religious Right hurts all other Conservative values. I in fact work to call out such nonsense every change I get.

Are you suggesting that merely because the Religious Right exists I should accept "Progressive values"?

@Alienbeing What values of progressivism do you find unacceptable? Secularism? Conservation? Equality?

@p-nullifidian I have no problem with Secularism, the mere fact that I am an Atheist, on an Agnostic.com web site proves that. Why would you ask?

As respects Conversation and Equality, my first reply is that those are not "Progressive" values, they are universally shared by most, if not all groups. Of course each group does have outlyers, but who do you know that ever said he/she opposed either?

Last, you must now it is never really the subject, rather how it is approached. My observation is that "Progressives" are not progressive, rather they are dogmatic, much the same as organized religion is dogmatic.

@Alienbeing I agree that some progressives are not progressive at all, just as some conservatives who would prefer society be frozen in time (or even seek to set the clock back) may be as well.

But the thing is, progressive policies have in fact been enacted by Republicans, just not in today’s political climate. An irony may be found in the conservative slogan “make America great again.” Which America are we speaking of? If it is a time when Teddy Roosevelt was president, here was a Republican who pushed for progressive income and estate taxes, championed conservation and fought to break up monopolies and trusts, or what we might call ‘too big to fail’ today.

During the 50s when Eisenhower was president the graduated income tax was at its highest for high wage earners, and in the 70s the Nixon administration established the Environmental Protection Agency, while in the 80s the Reagan administration established Department of Education and proudly signed into law reparations for the families of Japanese Americans who were interned during World War II, and in the 90s George HW Bush signed the Americans with Disabilities Act.

Barry Goldwater, Jr. was a Republican who despised the influence and political interference of church leaders and religions. Earl Warren and Warren Berger were two Chief Justices who were Republicans and who presided over some of the most progressive, dare I say, liberal decisions in the history of the Supreme Court.

But the majority of today’s Republicans lick the boots of an American oligarch, have made their bed with religious zealots and see nothing wrong with storming the Capitol to destroy our democracy by forcefully stopping the process of the certification of an election. They are a feckless and pea-brained vestige of their forebears.

@p-nullifidian I guess I wasn't clear. My main problem is I don't hear anything "progressive" coming out of politicians who proclaim themselves progressive.

Perhaps you can enlighten me.

@Alienbeing @p-nullifidian I sense that the examples above have not been sufficient to dissuade the stereotypes in re to "progressives". Regardless of political party politicians are not robots that always follow strict party doctrine, Which Progressive are you referring to? What is your primary news source?

@MizJ For starters how about AOC, & Bernie Sanders.

@Alienbeing Sanders is not a Dem, he's an Independent and generally a democratic socialist.
[ocasio-cortez.house.gov] [berniesanders.com]
Here are their websites.

@MizJ Not the conversation is about people that refer to themselves as "Progressive" Not "Democrats".

Additionally note I am asking for something one of them produced or said that is "progressive", not their web site.

@Alienbeing I gave you the info you sought. Take it or leave it.

@MizJ No you referred me to their web sites, obviously you don't read well.

Bye

@Alienbeing I agree with you. Due to the polarization of primaries and parties, the people we end up electing are very often, philosophically a far cry from the broader electorate would want.

@Alienbeing I would not presume to be capable of enlightening you. I only desire a discourse. I don't subscribe to the far left politics of AOC, and while I admire Bernie for his 'go-it-alone' mittens-wearing posture, let's face it, a more moderate approach is warranted.

So let's examine the issues. When it comes to the little guy vs. major conglomerates and corporate interests, the common laborer vs. big businesses, the environment vs. polluters, the individual vs. the State, etc., where do you prefer to fall?

@p-nullifidian Another issue is the aftermath of Citizen's United and all the dark money, our choices are limited by those in the shadows, not necessarily those we would choose otherwise.

@MizJ Agreed! Citizens United represents a polar shift, and the so-called conservatives who post to this site cannot deny it. These 'don't tread on me' conservatives are confronted with an existential dilemma: side with the money and get sucked into a vortex of power, or stand true to your tea party roots and fight against corruption, big money and big money politics.

@p-nullifidian The not presuming to enlighten me is meant to say what? I am asking you to supply an instance where a "Progressive" did or said something that actually caused progress.

To answer your questions: I think corporations will pay as little as they can get away with, and charge as much as possible. They will also look for ways to circumvent laws. I think polluters should be given very large fines or possibly prison. Last I think the State should stay out of an individual's life to the fullest extent possible.

@p-nullifidian Citizens United was a bad decision.

@Alienbeing On that score we agree, it was a botched opinion. And while I will admit that meaningful legislation in the way of progress has been rare lately, at least with Obama we had the Affordable Care Act which allowed an additional 20 million people to have healthcare who didn’t before.

@p-nullifidian I am in favor of Medicare for all. Here is why:

1.Medicare works well.
2.Irrespective of how healthcare is paid for the number of people needing healthcare in any year will remain the same. Hence the one obvious area where expenses can be reduced without affecting the quality of care is Administation. A single payor does save administrative costs.

I am somewhat concerned that the Government may introduce rules that are not so smart, but hopefully that can be delt with.

@Alienbeing The biggest expense in healthcare is not the care, it is the insane profits that are being made by the corporations that are running all the major aspects of it, Big Pharma is just one of the many. This is one of the most despicable sides of capitalism, preying upon sick people that lose their houses, life savings etc.

@MizJ Your statement is incorrect.