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Alfie Evans thoughts?

There's a little boy in hospital in Liverpool, England with a degenerative brain condition. Doctors said it would be unethical to provide further treatment and that life support should be withdrawn. The parents obviously wanted to do everything they possibly could to keep their Son, which I can understand of course, and a growing army of people are supporting them. The courts, High courts and Supreme Court have supported the Doctors as they are of course the expert witnesses involved and as a reasonable person I agree entirely that they should have the final say on the boys situation. The trouble is that now the life support has been removed and Alfie is breathing on his own. I still believe it's wrong to prolong a life at great cost to everyone involved when the condition is degenerative and hopeless in the end. I suppose my question is How do we keep our faith in science and reason when the experts have been proved wrong by a poorly Toddler and his uneducated parents?

Ianwalker1980 5 Apr 26
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12 comments

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1

The experts weren't proved wrong. And there was no treatment possible, he was receiving paliative care. This is a case that shows in the UK at lrast that the system works. It's the religious right that drove the opposition to this on ideological/religious grounds, trying to create controversy where there wasn't any.

1

A very sad story.

3

I think in this case I'm happy to trust the experts. It did sound harsh that they turned off life support, despite the parents wishes to the contrary...but the staff have to make hard calls like that every day and I'm sure their policies and procedures are regularly reviewed. It's not a situation I'd wish on anyone and although I'm not unsympathetic to the parents, sometimes insisting on life above all else is unfair to the person involved.

Yeh he died last night !!! 🙂 He wouldn't have a had life if he had remained alive by some chance.

3

Sadly the little man died last night. His parents ought to be proud of their brave fight.

1

Well he lost his fight at 2:30 this morning

1

Alfie died. Family should not be forced to have life support removed from loved ones nor should they be forced to provide it in hopeless cases. After all, they are the ones who will have to live with the memories. My daughter knows how I feel about extreme measures, but my health care directive leaves all of the decision making to her. I tell her to do what she is comfortable with, that whatever she decides is fine because I won't know or care what happens.

2

Society should not take “cost” into consideration in deciding whether to end or preserve life. The cost of maintaining Alfie alive is socially acceptable. I’m sure the Queen won’t have to pawn off the Crown Jewels anytime soon to avoid being evicted from her favorite palaces. In these cases the most important value is respect for human dignity, and the proper thing to do is to honor the wishes of the individual, if they can be ascertained, and of the individual’s immediate family.

Hospitals could be filled with people kept alive by machines while they're brain dead, of course cost is a factor.

@Ianwalker1980 - Exactly. People always pretend cost is not a factor. Unfortunately in real life it is. And children who could be helped (this child can't) will be denied treatment because of the cost.

5

I believe the child's struggle is ultimately futile, but if Italy is willing to provide the wanted help, then why not let them? It won't cost the British NHS a penny and the parents can feel like they truly did everything they could. As far as the boy's suffering, does he even have enough of a consciousness to suffer? And, if so, will that really matter when he won't be with us much longer?

FWIW, I do somewhat understand the thorny position the NHS finds themselves in. If, by some chance, the kid should make it, then it could presented as evidence in future hopeless cases that exorbitant amounts should be spent "just in case' ... and that failure to do so is putting a price on life. Death panels, as it were.

The situation just plain sucks all the way around.

vita Level 7 Apr 26, 2018

In honesty the best chance they had was dosing him senseless with THC / CBD on findings Imo.. Real tragic .. UK courts are an ass. He was in no state to be alive with any quality of life but I agree that once someone is diagnosed terminal there should be no restriction on the parents wishes to find help as last resorts .. As long as the kid wasn't in discomfort there is not harm .. very tragic.

2

Hi Ian,
I feel utterly distraught for his parents. They have fought so desperately hard for their little man, their love for him is palpable but they need to let go. I look at my three and feel so lucky they are all grown up. I know though, I have no idea how I would have reacted. They both should be massively proud of themselves.

1

If life support has been removed and he's breathing on his own they've got what they wanted. He will physically be there with no brain-an agonizing way to survive.

3

Science is about being wrong, then being "right" and then being wrong again. Play the cards that are in your hand right now, not the next hand. As for Alfie Evans, this is a classic hospice situation. I just went through that with my dad. He had another few weks of being with family and then he passed peacefully and painlessly.

My condolences on your loss.

1

I posted this on my Facebook earlier today

Imagine you are trapped in a room completely dark, there's no sound , it's not hot or cold , you can't feel any drafts, you can't pinch yourself as you can't even feel your surroundings . Oh and you cannot use any language to think as you only learnt how to scream . Now do that for an hour . Yet a lot of people want a child to do that for the rest of his life .. . ..to me that's just evil !!!!!

Kind of agree, but he has no comparison like we do. He knows nothing of the world so hasn't got the sense of loss we consider when reading your comment

@Ianwalker1980 he was a normal little boy for two years not the same as being a fully grown adult I agree but he would have known things were different that is if he can think .

@Simon1 from what I've read this morning it's basically just the core of his brain working, he might twitch when you tickle him, and breathe and so on, but there is no activity in the main part of his brain where thought and emotion and everything we would consider consciousness happens. I think they need to let him go and start the grieving process sooner rather than later. I don't envy them at all.

@Ianwalker1980 totally agree

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