"In the US, we’re happy to claim collective responsibility for Apollo 11. Yet as a community, we are uncomfortable acknowledging collective responsibility for acts of genocide perpetrated against Native people. If we want to take collective responsibility for Apollo 11, then we should be willing to reckon with taking responsibility for genocide, too."
"There are some acts that can be undertaken only by collectives. For example, states declare war; individuals don’t. This is because collectives coordinate the behaviour of many individuals. Acts of governance aren’t things individual people can do (unless operating as agents of the collective), because those acts of governance coordinate the behaviour of many people. An individual can commit crimes against humanity but acts such as maintaining institutions of slavery and segregation are collective acts. Those are things that the US did, acting collectively."
Therefore the acts of murder, political interference, international corruption & perpetration of acts that would be illegal in the USA by the CIA are evidence of the collective responsibility of all US citizens & liable for reparations.
Currently the first that spring to mind are the Ukrainian citizens killed in the last 8 years because of the incitement by the USA. I suggest that this includes those killed by Russian military forces.
[aeon.co]
See also "The Return of Fascism
As in the 1930s, a bankrupt liberalism, grotesque social inequality and ..."
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12 comments
Feel free to reply to any comment by clicking the "Reply" button.It's embarrassing as a US citizen and a world citizen to see the amount of ignorance below me. And the length people will go to too rhetorically attempt to explain away the subject manner of this topic. To explain away their own indoctrination into acceptance which has lead to decades of reoccurrences. As it was transported from Europe to America to also engage in.
How FrayedBear is attacked and falsely accused of not speaking out about this political atmosphere in his own country when I can assure all of you he has done on multiple occasions, and other collaborate issues his government participates in with western governments.
But then, recognizing many of the names on this thread it isn't much of a surprise.
William_Mary
Level 8
Sep 26, 2022
2
Now well supported here "Has retired US State Senator Richard Black succinctly called out the Nordstream & Ukrainian war ..." as well as by your much appreciated support.
The underlining message here is that in this regard we are essentially dealing with organized criminals within the political world stage. Quite frankly, even using the terminology of political can be arguably incorrect. It has been repeated time after time, and proven, that the US, EU, and their collaborate outlier countries/colonies commit the very crimes on humanity and other enemies or opposing countries, mostly of false manufactured accusations. Often through conditions they create within colour revolutions so they can make such false claims. Which these conditions were manufactured in Ukraine, any a number of other republics broken from the USSR since the 80s.
A prime example is the current referendum voting going on in East and Southestern Ukraine today. In which they are adamantly denouncing as illegitimate, even though they are being held under UN regulations description. We're essentially witnessing another proven fact that this organized crime gang has a biased means of enforcing their rules. If the rules don't support their agenda the rules are ignored and falsely accused of being illegitimate. Against 20 years of invading Middle East countries in a manor which went against UN rules. Still today stealing oil, gas, and food from Syria illegally.
William_Mary
Level 8
Sep 26, 2022
2
The first major genocide in North America happened at the hands of the Europeans and the catholic church. The cultural genocide of the last 150 or so years was at the church telling the federal government-both US and Canada-that forcing the children of native americans to church run boarding schools they would tame and civilize them-make them "white". Both governments agreed.The adults were forced onto reservations and the children taken away. These actions were the ideas of a few morons, not the population as a whole.
EricJones
Level 8
Sep 26, 2022
2
Crap. Greed for land, gold, buffolo & other valuable commodities by people with superior thieving, genocidal & greater hoarding diseases\ avarice are what led to the majority of the misdeeds whether under direction of kings, popes or individual settlers. It continues to this day. The de nativing school programs run by church organisations is little worse than today's state welfare programs run by individual church groups to rehabilate alcoholics, junkies, juvenile criminals, homosexuals & others deemed perverted by the local societies, childless couples wanting to adopt, and a raft of other programs to control feared groups.
Are you telling me that the US cavalry, settler vigilantes & individual land barons killed fewer people than the school institutions did?
So you will also be agreeing with "Has retired US State Senator Richard Black succinctly called out the Nordstream & Ukrainian war ..."
That was justified as that was those dammed heathens.
Oldman51
Level 7
Sep 25, 2022
1
The US was NOT a country when the genocide of native peoples and slavery started. Several European countries had a hand in it. There were no borders that were recognized by non-natives in North or South America when Europeans arrived, there was lots of blood shed due to the greed for gold and resources. There was a Norse settlement in Newfoundland, Canada hundreds of years before Columbus, I don't know if there was any contact with native peoples at that time.
MizJ
Level 8
Sep 25, 2022
2
See my reply to @EricJones above.
Right. I must of missed the part where westerns were filmed after the repeating rifles and Gatling guns were invented. When a vast number of Native American's were still being slaughtered and forced from their lands. I guess they just added those inventions into filming for dramatic effects. The history of the US Calvary must of been another dramatization which wasn't actually a construct of war until WWI? We didn't have states until then either huh? Are you really that fucking......
MizJ:
@William_Mary The last word of the first sentence was "started".
@MizJ it's irrelevant. In other words. You're making my point.
MizJ:
@William_Mary It's a long, complicated history. YES, much of it is awful and I find it loathsome and disgusting. Attacking me personally is rather below the belt and uncalled for.
@MizJ X "Attacking me personally is rather below the belt and uncalled for." I hadn't realised that @William_Mary was attacking you. I thought he was trying to get you to see through your indoctrination, cognitive dissonance & all conquering white guilt.
He may also have been praising your sexual desirability but that is not relevant to this discussion or likely given your initially stated views.
MizJ:
@FrayedBear If you read the last line of the reply to me you might think I was justified. In no way did I condone the atrocious behavior of Europeans. I could easily list many crimes and injustices throughout the history of the US that were ignored or downplayed in the history I was taught in school, in high school I called BS on one of my history teachers and walked out of class on multiple occasions. Indoctrination? I don't think so. Being aware of history doesn't make me guilty, it does disgust me.
@MizJ Since walking out of class what have you done to have the teachings changed, repair the original & ongoing damage & generally create a better all inclusive country & world?
@MizJ there lays the underlining problem within our society that exposes the indoctrination they've fallen into. Butt hurt people when someone exposes another for changing the narrative to conform to that indoctrination. Looking or attempting to excuse it? This has become a purposeful indoctrination on our society on the platforms of social media. Some weapons are often half truths provided towards perception management to capture the ignorant. Creating a purposeful political divide down party lines. Where seemingly even educated people like yourself will excuse away by changing the narrative. For what ever purpose you chose to apply a starting history and boundaries to the equation lacking in the narrative of the article or FrayedBear's post, that I don't recognize. Diverting attention away from the substantial issue which gaslights the divisional attributes.
Those genuinely looking for answers, or better informative means, get caught and discouraged from the chaos within on social medias and give up and turn away. Or entrapped within another sense of poor social affairs. Which I have personally observed over the years I've been doing political commentary.
I wasn't attacking you as much as I was attempting to differentiate between the narrative of subjective material and added emphasis towards combatting the chaotic exchanges already present by many replies. Also full of useless rhetoric by people I've been around the block with numerous times which I have no hope for.
I've watched these people float through at least 3 decent groups in which they attempt to create the very same chaotic atmospheres where people who are actually armed with history, facts, and determination, slowly washed them away from. They always end up retreating to the larger site pages where they have a following of the same likes of rampant members where they can gang up on others with their personal attacks and unsubstantiated information of ignorance's, looking only for glorification for their useless rhetoric. Or disappear all together, sadly, negatively, taking people with genuine intent with them occasionally. Quite frankly, they have only proven to be ignorant on a historical and political front, incapable of correlating the two, and refuse to put the time and intelligence into correcting their means of observation to correct this. When we attempt to debate providing facts with historic indications they offer us personal attacks, changing of narratives, unsubstantiated accusations, take statements out of context, and use the same useless rhetoric repetitive statements handed out by indoctrinating medias. They make enemies out of history and facts.
Where are you?
MizJ:
@William_Mary Your last line in your previous reply was, "Are you that fucking...". If you wish to have a civilized debate it's all good. Some of the exchanges I have had on here have been enlightening and enjoyable. If you choose to attack the person and not the argument please don't bother replying to my comments. It adds nothing positive and creates a hostile environment.
As far as the actions of others unless it is directed at me it's easier to ignore the ignoramuses. Many thanks for your analysis of social media.
I am in east central Florida where the sky looks awful due to an outer band of Hurricane Ian.
The collective is hopeless it must be abandoned,we can peacefully co exist in mutual separation.. let them be them as long as they can't fuck with us anymore, it's all good..
laidback1
Level 6
Sep 25, 2022
1
Please explain.
Separate economy,and institutions.
“It is forbidden to kill; therefore all murderers are punished unless they kill in large numbers and to the sound of trumpets.” ― Voltaire
WilliamCharles
Level 8
Sep 25, 2022
1
Citizens of the US are well aware that Native Americans were terribly mistreated. Once again your ignorance is shown.
Alienbeing
Level 8
Sep 25, 2022
1
If you all know it why have you greedy narcissistic bastards not made reparations & righted the wrongs? Same with the Irish & African slaves?
The monies used creating the Ukrainian conflict & Russophobia would have been better spent on reparations to your own citizens instead of creating new wrongs to be compensated in the future to Russian & Ukrainian people. What's good enough for the Jews is good enough for all other world citizens subjected to the horrors of US policy every bit as horrific as those of the Third Reich.
Ping @Redbai
@FrayedBear "If you all know it why have you greedy narcissistic bastards not made reparations & righted the wrongs?"
Because he's lying. Americans are not taught in school that indigenous people were "terribly mistreated". They are taught that they were "relocated to other lands" as if there was some mutual agreement. They are also taught that whatever was done (and like slavery no need to delve into the details) it was for the better because it created America.
@redbai thank you for confirming the collective cognitive dissonance in this matter. Looking at the correspondents it appears to be a white characteristic.
@FrayedBear FTR, it is true that America has responsibilities that it has ignored in relation the harm it has done to POC in general, how that translates into America being responsible for the actions of Russians as they fight an illegal war of aggression I do not see.
@redbai Maybe not in your school system, but it was in mine. Additionally my "hobby" is American history, and everything I ever read, everything, clearly states that Naitive Americans were terrible mistreated.
I'm not surprised, CA school systems are strange.
@redbai, @FrayedBear Your evaluation from afar again shows a total lack of knowledge of almost anything that happens in the U.S. The fact that you are attracted to @redbai, a proven malcontent and a proven liar shows your lack of knowledge.
@Alienbeing You being a combination of racist, liar and stupid is the only point I need to make here.
@redbai USA creation of Russophobia & communism, trade unionism particularly since 2017, US citizen paranoia, the US led 2014 coup leading to genocide against Russians that ultimately goaded Russia into action to protect the Russian speaking Ukrainians living in Eastern Ukraine.
As for you @Alienbeing "redbai, a proven malcontent and a proven liar" - are you projecting again or simply assuming guilt because someone has opinion differing from your usual antithetical opinions?
@FrayedBear Russia is responsible for "Russophobia", communism was not created by the United States and there is nothing wrong with trade unions IMO. Russia is responsible for it's actions not America. The idea that America is responsible for Putin's aggressive actions makes no sense. Putin made a pathetic attempt to expand Russian borders so that he could aggrandize his legacy and failed. He's now too narcissistic to accept reality.
@redbai your reply reads like the pot calling the kettle black. . ."pathetic attempt to expand Russian borders" - what has the USA been doing the last 150 years?
@FrayedBear If I ever praise American foreign policy you'd have a point, but since I believe it to nothing but an extension of corporate greed you're complaining to the wrong person.
@redbai Your feebe attempts at insult only prove you have nothing. Your bio, backed up by your absurd posts prove you are a loser. Since you are a loser, who cares what you have to say?
@redbai, @FrayedBear I am amused that you two are so desperate for agreement. Both of you can feel free to rant on. Each of you reveals your individual moronic positions as you type.
Please continue to show your irrelevance.
@redbai Once again you throw out your phoney race card. I have repeatedly asked you to cite anything racist that I ever said. You never cite a thing.
When you can back up anything you puke out, let us know.
@redbai ok. Peace?
@FrayedBear NO! See reply under the post you made re Black
@FrayedBear Your link is supposed to prove what?
I take full responsibility for things that I have done. I take no responsibility for what others do, now or in past eras.
This "collective responsibility" you refer to is pure B.S. It is also an insult to good citizens who had no part in anything that your panties are in a twist for.
You're hanging around the wrong groups. You need a reality check.
dumasarok
Level 7
Sep 25, 2022
5
In which case according to your logic the Germans should no longer be held responsible by Jews for the 20th Century holocaust. Nor should Israelis & their prime supporter USA be accountable for the 20th & 21st Century holocaust perpetrated against the Palestinians!
@FrayedBear For once you posted something that made sense.Your 9/25 reply to dumasarok is a correct analysis, except for your statement about Israeli "holocaust" positions against Palestinians. No such thing happened.
@Alienbeing can't help yourself can you?
@FrayedBear There is no reason for me to help myself. I don't need help, but you sure need additional history education.
"...Ukrainian citizens killed in the last 8 years because of the incitement by the USA."
Balderdash 
Flyingsaucesir
Level 8
Sep 25, 2022
2
So argued Nazis at their post WWII trials. Many were hung.
Frayed Bear is an Aussie troll who loves to berate anything from the US, forgetting precisely that if it weren't for us yanks, Aussies would be eating sushi and speaking Japanese, he also loves to rewrite history forgetting conveniently that Aussies killed and fucked up aboriginees, and even to this date discriminate their own natives. Call him a commonwealth cum eater who only looks at America with resentment due to the fact that he must suck King Charles cock, while no American gives a fuck about that big eared monarch schmuck.
Mofo1953
Level 9
Sep 25, 2022
3
Troll? For sure. Aussie? Well that's what he/she claims, but who really knows? His/her/their/its ideology is totally anti-American, pro Putin.
@Mofo1953 & @Flyingsaucesir you both reveal your ignorance & stupidity to say nothing of your guilt ridden puerility.
@FrayedBear fuck off troll, you've been unmasked countless times and your imbecilic insults slide off due to the fact that you're a cocksucker, now continue sucking and be gone.
@Mofo1953 My QED not yours.
@FrayedBear only you laugh with emojis when the rest of the people here know that you're a despicable troll, now go and continue sucking Charles dick. Nobody else gives a fuck about your bullshit posts.
@Mofo1953 & yet again you identify your crass stupidity - "Nobody else gives a fuck about your bullshit posts." Proving that you do care & get upset by my posts because you respond. My QED again. Oh the emoji I understand to mean LMAO ROFL. The number of identifying the depth of my amusement at your contribution to my well being today. 
@FrayedBear says Aussie cocksucking troll, you have been unmasked for the piece of cocksucking shit you are and there's no denying it, laugh all you want troll. Read all the other comments and realize that your imbecilic posts are worthless, so now again, pucker up those cocksucking lips and if Charles cums, swallow as Aussie trolls always do with their king.
"Has retired US State Senator Richard Black succinctly called out the Nordstream & Ukrainian war ..."
Do you also call the Senator a "cocksucking troll"?
@FrayedBear no, he's an imbecile, you're the cocksucking Russian troll.
@Mofo1953 takes one to know one Mofo.
@Mofo1953 Are you looking forward to your 70th birthday?
@FrayedBear I'm not a British subject you imbecile, much less a Russian apologist, so your astoundingly moronic retort is just that as always, and I don't look forward to anything that is personal in nature.
@Mofo1953 a sad life that you have old man.
@FrayedBear happy enough to remind you of your ridiculous trolling
@Mofo1953 happy in projecting your trolling. I merely state what is obvious to the rest of the world but denied by you.
@FrayedBear bla bla bla troll troll troll, now continue bending over and puckering up.
OK. And the point is?
DenoPenno
Level 9
Sep 25, 2022
1
His point is right there in his name: bear = Russian.
@David_Cooper if your AI invention is as intelligent as your remark implies you to be then sadly humanity will not be well served.
Your expectation of fame will most likely arise from being awarded a Dead Prize.
The Dead Prize Set up by Cameron Sinclair, the cofounder of the nonprofit Architecture for Humanity in London will facilitate your fame.
Accept your responsibility for the US collective guilt in its worldwide wrongdoings.
@FrayedBear I have no fame and very little responsibility. I do not want a prize.
@DenoPenno that remark "Dead Prize" is directed at the man claiming to be an AI inventor who will soon become famous.
@FrayedBear I wasn't aware that I had any connection to the US, and I certainly have no desire to defend the genocides they've caused, and likewise those caused by Russia. I have no idea what the "dead prize" is and have no interest in prizes or fame - I'm just trying to stay alive long enough to complete my AGI project, which isn't easy when you have to take five times the dose of a medicine that would kill a healthy person.
@David_Cooper Again proving my point. I make no reference to America. You are the one who stupidly & ignorantly links my site name with Russian nationality & not my physical condition resulting from having been abused by governments & their agencies together with a coward of a hit & run motorist who ran me over & left me for dead at the side of the road nearly 20 years ago.
Go back to your stovies, skirlie, finnan haddie & if you're so inclined your fried mars bars.
@FrayedBear "Accept your responsibility for the US collective guilt in its worldwide wrongdoings." That's a reference to America. You may not technically be Russian, but you've tied yourself to Putin's regime by becoming a propagandist for it. You doubtless have good cause to be repelled away from many of the big powers opposed to Putin, but it's a mistake to jump into bed with someone even worse. Fried Mars bars? They're for gullible tourists. Stovies - cannae thole the stuff. Skirlie? Fit's at? The fish is good though.
@David_Cooper "tied myself" not to Putin but to reality. The fact that I'm way in front of analysing the situation correctly is now becoming more apparent. Have a read of "Some agree with me.".
@FrayedBear I was previously of the opinion that Ukraine should never be allowed to join NATO or the EU because it was so evenly split on the matter with so many Ukrainians having strong links to Russia, and I repeatedly criticised the EU and others for trying to grab Ukraine into their empire, and Ukrainian politicians like Zelensky who were trying to drive things in that direction too. The damage is done now though and there is no longer such an even split - Ukraine and Russia have been split permanently due to Putin's slaughter. Most Ukrainians now hate him and want to cut the ties. There's no way back from there.
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