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Maybe, it's simply part of evolution.

In a sentient species' evolution, could religion be considered simply an intermediate step leading to species self actualization? I've never run across a culture that didn't seem to be in some stage of religious development. From shaman through priest. Does anyone know of an example of a primitive culture that did/does not have a designated spiritual guide role as part of their society?

bigpawbullets 9 May 10
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2

It;s a side effect of the construct we develop to predict the actions of other people. We became very good at looking for patterns of agency, so it is natural to apply the same concepts to the natural world. Now that we know nature doesn't work that way, maybe we can drop the agency construct for a more useful predictive model.

Lauxa Level 5 May 26, 2018
0

What is self actualization? Scientific skeptic me smells woo-woo nonsense.

1

I rather doubt cave men dealt with any spiritual nonsense...

You never know. They needed to explain phenomena in their world just like any primitive culture before or after them.

2

I would recommend "Sapiens" by Yuval Noah Harare.
It's not just that religions are myths, even human rights and humanism are myths as well. They exist because we believe they exist. These myths are essential for the functioning of those societies. So, any society, be it modern or primitive, always has these myths. Without these myths, we can not have large number of people functioning as a group as there is no basis for trust otherwise.
Also, the notion of society progressing towards some ideal with time is fallacious. I don't know what self - actualization of a society means. On that note, the author claims that the hunter gatherers were healthier and happier compared to most societies after the agricultural revolution.

Yes, I find Yuval Harari extremely interesting and just mentioned the same book in another thread.

@kenbur12
Ty for that recommendation, Ken.
I got a lot from "The Naked Ape". It's a fairly old book, but with a great deal of enlightening perspective.

@njoy_life_2 I have The Naked Ape by Desmond Morris! I haven't read it yet

@srikanth
I'd be interested in what you thought, afterward, if you'd care to speak of it. Hey, you might make a post of that book, what ppl got out of it!

@srikanth
I'd be interested in what you thought, afterward, if you'd care to speak of it. Hey, you might make a post of that book, what ppl got out of it!

4

You make it sound like evolution is some sort of directed process with an ordained destination. That's not the beautiful theory I know and love. That said there does seem to be a common progression in humans belief that has been observed in many populations from animism, through polytheism to monotheism and indeed beyond. There are many exceptions to this progression including the Piraha tribe of the Amazon rainforest who have seemingly never developed a concept of a supreme spirit or god.

I didn't mean to imply evolution is directed by intelligent design or anything other than natural selection. But that's an interesting thought.

2

We’ve evolved a brain that has a specialized part just for recognizing faces, and it has found faces in the sky.

I've seen faces in clouds, the ocean, a pint of pilsner. .... guess my brain isn't that developed...
😉

@bigpawbullets No, it’s very developed.

4

A number of years ago there was a book that came out titled "Don't Sleep there re Snakes". The writer was a missionary and linguist who worked with Noam Chomsky. He was to go to the Amazo and try to study a language of a tribe and maybe convert them to Christianity. What happened was just the opposite and the tribe converted him to Atheism. The author actually presented this experience at a FFRF conference.
[theguardian.com]

Oh, wow, That's priceless, Jack!

@njoy_life_2 Remember, this was a hunting/gathering community. Some of their practices (like infanticide) are abhorrent to others.

@JackPedigo
Yes, I read the link, I'm not idealizing the primitive culture, just was tickled to hear that he was converted, instead of them.

3

Here's what I posted the other day when someone asked "why does Religion Exist?"

The first gods were described on cave walls to explain thunder and lightning. So the first answer as to why is that it's in our nature to create answers where they cannot be found. The cave men weren't trying to control anyone, they were simply scared shitless of the loud boom and flash. Enter human flaws again incorrectly linking correlation and causality and enter the idea of an interactive entity, with appeasement. "If I kill a goat and leave it on a big rock, the lightning doesn't seem as bad." At that point it was off to the races. If there's an interactive role with your unknown all-powerful entity along comes mortal judgment, "my goat was bigger than yours". Now all of a sudden there's a hierarchical structure with someone in charge, "I determine which goat is the best sacrifice because I have the best hat."

Now add in all the problems that exist in organized religion today, greed, fear, power, control, believers, and liars. At this point trying to explain modern day Christianity would be like unraveling Xmas lights with bowling balls for hands. You'd need first hand knowledge of the inner circle in charge along with the most powerful individuals dating back thousands of years.

Religion is simply the natural evolution of a sentient species. If we meet an advanced alien race one day I'll bet the farm that they can tell us about the religious phase of their history. Religion is basically the terrible two's when the favorite word is "why?" A lot of people want to feel that humanity is special as if religion is something only we could come up with. We're not special, we're just the only sentient species we know of.

That's a great summary of what I've been thinking. Thanks for sharing it here.

4

I think it is just a step...at least I hope so.
The god concept is a paradigm we're just starting to get past in the evolutionary process.

I think it's a very slow process. But I believe our species is heading in that direction.

2

Vandals? Visigoths? Did they have deities and spiritual guides? I don't know, just that they were plunderers and marauders.

Goths and Vandals were initially Pagan. Later they swung towards Arian Christianity, along with many of the other surviving "barbarian" cultures.

2

Well scientists have been studying culture of animals, and AFAIK none of them have exhibited any religious tendencies. The animals studied include the great apes, some monkeys, elephants crows, toothed whales, and Republicans🙂

It is safe to say on Earth religion is unique to humans.

Astute observation.

1

No.. I think you've nailed it. Religious expression in some form or another appears to be almost a natural part of moving from immaturity to a fully fledged advanced mature civilisation free from the chains of superstitions and dead or dying destructive religions.
Of course we have not yet reached that point quite yet......

3

No.. I think you've nailed it. Religious expression in some form or another appears to be almost a natural part of moving from immaturity to a fully fledged advanced mature civilisation free from the chains of superstitions and dead or dying destructive religions.
Of course we have not yet reached that point quite yet......

3

I think it's definitely a part of the development of society/civilization... It's when you start to move from simply surviving, to attempting to understand your surroundings and things are the way they are... The questions that progression leads to must initially have fantastical answers because you have no knowledge basis to start from. It's a way for people to deal with/ attempt to understand things to which they have no explanation... IMHO at least. 😉

3

Republicans?

Ange Level 5 May 10, 2018

Ha!
I put this under religion and spirituality.
But your comment is interesting. Bibles and Guns!

3

It all appears to be part of our evolutionary baggage and it is encouraging to know that evolution is continuing. At one time, applying agency to observation was a useful tool that helped us survive. In these days when science has gotten a foothold, our need for it is fading. I suspect that one day we will fully relieve ourselves of this load and move into another stage of development under the guidance of mostly rational thought.

3

I don’t know how to speculate on where it’s leading, but it seems pretty clear to me that it’s most likely a product of evolution.

skado Level 9 May 10, 2018
2

Not that I have heard of.

Betty Level 8 May 10, 2018
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