If a woman wants an abortion should the father have a right to keep the child?
In the U.S. a woman has a right to an abortion. As far as I know, if she has the child and files a paternity suit, the father has to pay support for the child, whether he wanted it or not. Other than by adoption, a man can't have HIS OWN child without a woman bearing that child. A woman can't have HER OWN child without a man. Outside of some guy duping some woman into sex, both parties know the possible outcome. Since a man can't get his own child any other way, shouldn't he have a right to HIS child? He certainly has to pay for it if he doesn't want it and the woman does. Yeah, yeah, I can hear the "it's the woman's body..she has to bear the child" etc. stuff, but she knew what she was getting into when she had the sex.
For those of you who took the time to consider the man's point of view I thank you, regardless
of your vote.
For those of you who decided to make personal attacks because I dared to ask the question, you know what you can do--also re-read the civility pledge you made when you joined the site.
For all of you, please remember freedom of speech. Without it and your precious law that says you have a right to abortion, you wouldn't have it. Try and let everyone have an opinion, but at a minimum let them asks questions whether you like them or not. Thanks for confirming my opinion of humanity
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43 comments
Feel free to reply to any comment by clicking the "Reply" button.Short answer, it would be wrong to force a medical decision on anyone, there for it's wrong to give the father rights to the mother's womb...
On the other hand pregnancy is not always concentual, and accepting semen does not denote an offer of prolonged relationship of financial support.
The flip side of choice is responsibility.
Your choice, you responsibility
Lifestone
Level 5
Sep 20, 2018
0
Guess you're forgetting the child inside the womb...and the courts guarantee lifetime financial support or at least in theory...
You are wrong in the point that a woman can`t have a child without a man. There are sperm banks and technology is moving toward female-female reproduction. However I will agree that men should be consulted about the decision. The final choice would be the womans of course but there are factors that might affect the womans choice. He may have a terminal disease, it may be hereditary. This would affect child support. He may be the sole heir to a fortune or the last of his tribe. It is unfair that a man has no say but life is not fair.
273kelvin
Level 8
May 22, 2018
0
The hate you are receiving has a lot more to do with the attitude you wrote your post. You could have written your question in a more neutral and diplomatic manner instead of antigonizing the group you knew would read it (I.e. liberal left leaning women). You're reaping what you sowed.
To answer as neutral as possible: Hypothetically, if a couple has sex, their intent is usually not to procreate but to indulge in the intimate moment and love. Individuals that are not thinking of procreating during sex use protection. If the condom breaks and the women gets pregnant then the pregnancy is not welcomed (no contract) so the women has dominion on the decision. I would add that even if the child was originally welcomed and something happens between the couple or the woman, she has dominion over the outcome of the pregnancy. Any attempt for the man to obtain the child is coercion.
Free speech also means the right to answer with the same lack of civility of the question.
Lukian
Level 8
May 21, 2018
1
Thanks for the lecture. I missed the fine print that says I have to ask your opinion before I post something. I happen to think that it takes intelligence and reason to determine that religion/god is bullshit. I therefore assumed that my audience would be that intelligent, reasonable crowd that might consider both sides of the abortion issue. There is NO "tone" to my post/poll. It merely poses a question. Apparently some women believe that only they get to decide what lives and what dies. I found it interesting that none of them answered my question about who does the kid belong to once it's born, if they and they alone get to decide to have it or not. Whether you or they like it or not, the father is a a "co-owner" for lack of a better term--not just if the kid is born. What if the scenario is this: A loving couple who always planned on having 4 kids--while the wife is pregnant with the 4th she decides, "enough of this, I'm not doing it" and decides to abort the 4th kid? Poor father? Fuck him? He's just some schmo I had sex with, it's my body? See the scenario doesn't change that it took two to create the embryo and potential kid. Regardless of the scenario or the answer, to make any question, post or poll here personal is uncalled for and any question that can piss someone off puts the blame on the person getting pissed off in what is supposed to be an open forum for people to have a dialogue with others about any and all subjects. Can you imagine if I posed the question "Should men get vasectomies to prevent childbirth?" Are you pissed by that question? No one can tell me what to do with my body? Can you hear the same women say, "yeah , dammit, hysterectomies are a whole lot worse that a vasectomy, fuck him!" You think you're allowed to attack me personally for asking the question? Because I should know that men might read it? If the answer is yes, as I suspect it is, then apparently some people who I thought were intelligent and reasonable, looking at subjects from all sides, are only that way if they like the subject matter. As I said, they know what they can do.
@lerlo why did you add this sly remarks in your post if not to antagonize: Without it and your precious law that says you have a right to abortion, you wouldn't have it.
For those of you who decided to make personal attacks because I dared to ask the question (to point out a few).
You see that is one problem. You knew you would get some push back and you were already on the offensive (and defensive).
Where in your question do you mention this: I found it interesting that none of them answered my question about who does the kid belong to once it's born?. To answer that point, if the child is the 4th born of the same couple, the precedent is established who the parents are. If the couple can't resolve their issue then yes there is the court system to decide.
I answered you and conveyed to you my opinion with civility, honesty and without malice. Judging from your reply, I wonder who is pissed and angry.
@lerlo your post is demeaning and completely ignores the fact that any woman in this situation would be forced to give up a year of her life,Suffer and risk all the health problems that come with pregnancy and childbirth and you completely ignore that fact in your question. People are angry at you because your basic premise seems to be that a woman has no rights to her own body if a man "wants" a child. You seem to think that a man wanting a child carries more weight than a womans right to her own body and what happens to it. That's reprehensible.
OpposingOpposum
Level 9
May 21, 2018
3
"A woman can fuck with impunity"? Por favor! Like men haven't? Grow up!
AzVixen52
Level 7
May 21, 2018
3
Sure, but I don't know why someone would want to keep the dead remains of a fetus. It sounds a little deranged.
All jokes aside, abortion is something that is best left to medical staff to decide on, and other qualified parties, however I am sure that most of the time, it is viable on all grounds to abort a fetus, so such an assessment would not create a rights issue.
Additionally, giving birth is a highly taxing and painful process that I absolutely do not blame any woman for wanting to go through, just like I wouldn't hold it against any man for being responsible for providing for a baby, and dealing with the extra work of looking after a woman who is expecting. Yes, it is natural, but this does not preclude its downsides, which are often more than enough.
People from the outside of these issues also have no authority to rule on such an issue, because they do not hold property rights over the parties involved; the parties involved are no one's property, but their own, and that child is their collective production, but of course it follows that a better informed decision is going to be a better decision in all respects.
Often, people are not prepared to raise a child, as well. Raising children is expensive, requires the ability to guide someone through life itself, requires a knowledge of right vs. wrong, and requires qualities of maturity which are exclusive to those of higher intelligence and resources.
Now, let's get into the national politics of the situation as well. Our food supply, amenities, and space struggle to adjust to our growing population, which becomes less intelligent with greater numbers due to such resource limitations. That being said, we should be very keen not to just let people have children as they want, especially in the case of people who would, either out of genetic problems, neglect, or corruption of mind, produce criminals and other highly destructive categories of people. We don't need our country to become a zoo because of strong feelings about reproductive rights, especially when the USA is still not first place in academic and intellectual performance.
Also, this is not something to make political theater over, for those who would lambast me over my position. I implore that people approach this question with maturity, honesty and clear, accurate thinking, rather than normative argumentation with no cognizance.
DZhukovin
Level 7
May 21, 2018
0
Okay
I don't get why this is still a question. What part of my body, my choice is so hard to understand?
Ruby_Slipper
Level 6
May 21, 2018
2
Sure, the woman can abort and the guy can try to get custody of the clump of cells.
Good luck.
Slappy_Longarms
Level 7
May 21, 2018
7
Boom. Checkmate.
This is a nonsensical argument. The woman is forced to literally bear the burden of the pregnancy. Pregnancy and childbirth are dangerous and cone with a whole host of possible risks, mental and emotional. Not even corpses can be forced to give up their bodily autonomy. Are you truly suggesting women have less say over whats done with their bodies than a dead person?
OpposingOpposum
Level 9
May 21, 2018
5
@sarahjustme it is US law. A dead body can't be forced to give up its bodily autonomy(give
Organs without consent) even to save the life or lives of others. No one can legally be required to put themselves at risk, even when it would save a life.Therefore if you demand that a woman take the risk of giving up her life to carry an unwanted pregnancy to term, you're putting women in a legal class with less rights than any other class, even dead people.
Really, really can't wait until this mindset dies off. It's well beyond time to lay these old ass, tired ass disproven 5000 times ass theories to rest. If I had to listen to this everyday I'd cut my own throat just to escape.
This issue will change entirely when artificial wombs become commonplace.
bingst
Level 8
May 20, 2018
10
That just makes me think of Brave New World, and it's a little saddening. There is no real existence for the inhabitants of the World State, or for the outer groups.
@DZhukovin My comment on a post concerning artificial wombs, including links to a prototype experiment done with an animal. Very cool pics.
I think technology may eventually provide an answer to the abortion debate.
Don't worry people, soon we will have artificial wombs. Men and women can have babies whether or not they want /get sex. How soon? Probably not soon enough!
Spongebob
Level 7
May 20, 2018
2
hope it takes many many decades
@Faithless1 I don't know! Currently, artificial wombs are intended to help babies born prematurely. U of Philadelphia researchers showed lamb grown in an artificial womb starting from a few weeks old foetus.
In similar ground breaking research, male mouse stem cells have been differentiated into female gammets (eggs). So, in the future, same-sex couples could be true biological parents of their own child. All these developments, if they do happen, are going to drastically change the way gender and parenthood is perceived. Currently, we have, at least in some parts of the world, legal equality for parents of all compositions and soon it might be a biological reality.
I don’t feel that a man should have the right to prevent a woman from having an abortion. The way I see it, if a man chose to have unprotected sex with me, knowing that I’m not on birth control, then his decision has already been made. He chose to give me his sperm, but it’s my choice on what I can and will do with it. Plus, as many others have stated, why can’t the man just find someone who does want to have his child instead of forcing someone to have his child??
H3ath3r
Level 4
May 20, 2018
12
How about both of them get sterilized and if one or both want a child then adopt one.
MacTavish
Level 7
May 20, 2018
3
Which would be reasonable if women under 35 without children weren't actively prevented from recieving this surgery except in case of emergency. I've lost count of the times I've heard " I wanted my tubed tied but the doctor refused to perform the surgery because I might change my mind" from childfree women.
@Blindbird That is really strange considering the "It's her body" argument and if she is older than 18 and considered an adult. I would think a woman would have no problem getting this procedure done after a specified waiting period to give her time to think about it. Is this type of misogyny prevalent in the medical community (as it is elsewhere but I don't want to guess)?
Can a doc refuse to do the operation barring any physical complications if it is within his scope?
This just proves you can learn something new everyday. I have never thought about medical services being refused to women, I'm sorry ladies. I'm still kinda new to the leftish side of things, but I'm learning.
@MacTavish the women arent makimg these decisions doctors are. Are you suggesting we attempt surgery on ourselves? Its not strange, it's infuriating.
@Blindbird No, no, no. I didn't think docs in this day and age would refuse the surgery on any grounds other than health reasons. That's why I thought it strange.
I was alluding to the modern era where (legally) a woman has control of her body and the decisions she makes concerning it. I never meant to degrade women and will never consciously do so, I may be misinterpreted (that will be my fault for not explaining things well enough) but will never blatantly do that.
I apologize to you and anyone else I may have offended, I am sorry.
@MacTavish but they do. That is what I just said. Google it for yourself and you will find hundreds of women telling their stories about that happening. Another lovely instance of men disbelieving women about things they know nothing about because, since men never experience it, it doesn't happen right? Sexist much?
@Blindbird
- It wouldn't have mattered who posted that I would have replied the same.
2.You implied that I didn't believe it because you are a woman, I never said nor implied that. - You have put words in my mouth I never said.
- I thought it strange the docs are able to get away with it. I never said nor implied you were lying.
- Just another case of reading into it what you want.
- If "Another lovely instance of men disbelieving women..." isn't a sexist statement then what is.
- I even apologized for any offense but apparently that doesn't mean much to you.
Last entry on this thread, I am not explaining further, I don't have too.
@MacTavish doesnt mean much. You are correct. I sincerely doubt you wouldbhave replied the same had I been a man.
I kind of hate this question, but I really dislike the argument that people know what they are in for. Birth control interacts with other medications, condoms break, etc. And people make poor choices in the heat of the moment. Also, some men are assholes and remove the condom without consent.
The man may end up financially responsible, but does not take on the health burden and risk. Also, many women will never sue for child support. So the burden is much lower for the man.
If a woman does carry the child to term, she can sue for support, but the father can also sue for parental rights. That is the fair comparison. The man should not be able to force the woman to be an incubator for a potential child.
Drewesque
Level 6
May 20, 2018
14
spot on!
that was easy to vote on but I feel a little uneasy at the plight of the male. let's hope nobody lets the male know there is / was a problem !!!
markdevenish
Level 7
May 20, 2018
4
The man has sex, whoop dee do. The woman goes through 9 months of pregnancy and childbirth which can cause death on occasion. How are those comparable?
The woman has no choice about whether or not to pay support for a child that she gives birth to either.
A man can adopt a child, or hire a surrogate. A woman can be artificially inseminated. There are certainly other ways to have a child than force a woman to go through with a pregnancy against her will.
Stephanie99
Level 8
May 20, 2018
3
Nice avoidance of the question
@Jnei No, she gave all the reasons why it's so hard on a woman and completely avoided the man's side of the equation, leaving it to "he had sex." The comment I left raised both sides and I expected the bias, was just trying to see if people would answer the question considering both sides. Totally avoids that its his child too.
@GinaKay Just trying to get answers that consider that its the guys child too. I knew the biased opinions would come, I listed them in my comment. I 'm just looking for the poll numbers and hopefully some thoughtful discussion. Check how many responses here mention that its also the man's child and then ask who wants thoughtful discussion.
@lerlo It isn't a child when the abortion happens. It's a tiny clump of cells.
@lerlo If it is born then it is a child and both parents are responsible for its upbringing.
@lerlo Your question misstates the situation. There is no child to keep or not keep.
Jnei:
@lerlo "No, she gave all the reasons why it's so hard on a woman and completely avoided the man's side of the equation, leaving it to "he had sex" - so, to sum up, she gave reasons explaining why she believes a man does not have the right to prevent a woman having an abortion - and thus answered the question.
@lerlo I answered the question when I voted. I was elaborating.
@lerlo bacause thats literally the entirety of a mans role in procreation, whether you like it or not.
Na man. This is a bad road to go down.
BrightTyger979
Level 6
May 20, 2018
2
Last I checked questions were still ok in the universe 
@lerlo I never said questions weren't ok. I just think your reasoning is seriously flawed here. " She knew what she was getting into when she had the sex", like are you serious here? Also I don't think you grasp what freedom of speech means. Freedom of speech is not freedom from consequences. Freedom of speech means that the government isn't going to lock you up for your opinions. It's not carte blanche to say whatever you want, free from criticism. Also is fine to have an opinion and ask questions, but your OP is about the most condescending thing I've read on here in a minute.
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