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LINK MH17 missile owned by Russian brigade, investigators say - BBC News

The missile that downed a Malaysia Airlines flight over eastern Ukraine in 2014 belonged to a Russian brigade, international investigators say.

For the first time, the Dutch-led team said the missile had come from a unit based in western Russia.

All 298 people on board the Boeing 777 died when it broke apart in mid-air flying from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur.

It was hit by a missile fired from rebel-held territory in Ukraine. Russia says none of its weapons was used.
(Ad Hominem by Russia)

Lukian 8 May 24
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0

I don't believe this. This story is constantly being used as a propaganda football and the BBC is not an impartial news source.

I still remember the BBC prostituting itself for the US Navy propaganda machine after it accidentally shot down flight 800.

Out of the blue the BBC produced a TV documentary proving the tragedy was caused by volatile fuel vapours in the 747's fuel tank. (No other 747 has exploded in this way.)

The missile fired by the US Navy submarine was witnessed by hundreds of American citizens. A minor detail to the BBC.

I'm guessing this Malaysian airliner was brought down by Ukrainian fascists. It's why the airspace over Ukraine was deemed too dangerous for civilian aircraft to fly over and why air traffic control diverted aircraft away. This is just more anti-Russia, fascist apologist propaganda.

What I don't understand however, is 'why'.

This is not a BBC investigation but an International investigation made by experts from the Netherlands. There are multiple news outlets that have picked up the story. here is a Russian outlet reporting:
[sputniknews.com]

@Lukian

Yes. I realise. I still feel the same way. I don't trust the 'experts' when political strings are attached.

Air crashes are notoriously messy. I'm thinking of the German Wings crash that was blamed on a suicidal pilot. Prior to that some military exercises using new laser cannons went wrong. There were problems with air traffic control too.

Imagine if that crash was actually caused by a military accident. Imagine the public fury. It's not hard to conceive of a huge scale cover up to prevent public anger.

I'm thinking about the Locherbie disaster too. That became another political propaganda football which nations opportunitistically exploited for their own political goals. Justice was not important, demonising Libya was.

[telegraph.co.uk]

@Ellatynemouth So many conspiracies and cover-ups! I'm surprised you trust The Telegraph. In fact, when the military does shoot down a plane, such as the USS Vincennes did in 1988, it comes to light pretty quickly.
The Air Malaysia flight was shot down by hardware only available to Russia and its proxy forces in Eastern Ukraine.

@Gareth

I don't trust the Telegraph.

Do you trust TWA Flight 800 was an accident caused by fuel vapours?

This becomes a simple issue of - do governments lie or not...

We disagree. It's a waste of time to argue.

@Ellatynemouth If you don't want to 'argue' then you don't have to keep posting. I'm not trying to convince you, only offer a balance for open-minded others.
To answer your question; yes I believe a fuel-tank explosion was the most likely cause of the TWA flight crash, based on what I know. In the light of new FACTS I may alter my opinion.
Most governments lie some of the time, but I don't believe that all governments lie all of the time or even most of the time, so anything that is premised on the inherent dishonesty of a democratically accountable government is suspect in my eyes.

@Gareth

I don't want to argue for the sake of it. But I'm compelled to find justice for the victims.

I believe the US Navy shot it down by accident. Witnesses saw the missile. It's been photographed. It's a huge embarrassment for the Navy to shoot down their own plane, which explains the cover up and the silencing of the witnesses. It explains why the investigating team deliberately manipulated the wreckage to make it look like an explosion from the inside out.

It's very convenient when cover ups are redefined 'conspiracy theories'. As if governments have never done anything wrong.

I'm dismayed that people won't even investigate for themselves instead of accepting the official narrative.

Even the father of one of the victims believes the flight was shot down by the US Navy in an accident:

[pennlive.com]

@Ellatynemouth I don't want this convo to go on any more than you do so I'll be brief.

  1. Scores of people know if a missile is fired - someone would have talked by now. These things are inventoried.The president cannot even keep secret that he had sex with a porn star - and only TWO people were in that room.
  2. Why search out and reconstruct every possible bit of the plane if you want to falsify the narrative? It makes no sense. You are just as likely to find a missile fin as an aileron if it was shot down.
    3."Even the father of one of the victims ". Surely you can see that being bereaved and maybe needing someone to blame is a handicap, not a qualification, to objective judgement. Accident investigators are more credible (or would they have to be in on the cover-up too?).

@Gareth

I agree with one of the victim's fathers - that it was a US Navy accident.

@Ellatynemouth I hope this can be the last word on the subject.

0

It's very sad but I would more trust Russian sources than western sources. American and British governments have absolutely no problem in lying to their people if it suits their agenda. What a terrible way to be governed, the government is supposed to work for the benefit of society not the other way around. Makes me angry just thinking about it.

It was neither American nor British that conducted the analysis.

@NotConvinced here is Sputnik news
[sputniknews.com]

If you trust Russian state media above a free press, well good luck to you.

@NotConvinced yes there's a difference. Who cares how it's reported. It's anybodies opinion at this point until this goes to court. It appears you know what happened already. Kudos to you all seeing entity. Fine let's end the discussion now, no use to proceed.

@NotConvinced it does not matter in so much that this investigation will go to court where supposedly your opinion, my opinion nor the opinion of millions don't matter in the pursuit of the truth. (I know you think I'm gullible but hey I don't care for your bias either)

@Lukian "t was neither American nor British that conducted the analysis."

"It's very sad but I would more trust Russian sources than western sources."

@Gareth Free press? Where?

@NotConvinced ok. So what do you propose is the best course of action then?

@smoyle so your conclusion about this case is?

@Lukian without having access to any of the facts I have no conclusion. And please don't say "you don't know so therefore God (Oops Russians).

@smoyle Right here.

@NotConvinced Ok False flag. Now what will prove or disprove that hypothesis for you?

@smoyle at what needs to happen for you to obtain a conclusion?

@Lukian This has just become a difference of opinion. You have yours and I have mine. I'm out.

2

But why? What did they have to gain? It seems so senseless to me.

2 possibilities: 1- it was an accident and Russia is trying to cover it up. Russia has denied that these missiles had crossed the border but the investigation show that is not true.
2- Russia did it in the hopes the Ukraine would be blamed.

@Lukian

It's the West blaming Russia when it knows fascist Ukraine is responsible.

@Ellatynemouth then that's a third possibility. The case will go to a court of International law.

@Lukian

This assumes all nations are honest and all courts are fair.

An innocent man was thrown in jail for the Locherbie disaster, following a trial by Western media. The West opportunitistically exploited the crash as justification to demonise Libya. It was a lie.

Iran was responsible, and it was a revenge attack on the US who shot down an Iranian airliner six months earlier.

Even the relatives of the Locherbie disaster victims who attended the trial believed the wrong man had been convicted.

@Ellatynemouth and you assume that the alternate theory is the truth just because it suits your belief that Iran is a terrorist nation.
Can we let the process proceed without concluding anything at this point? I'm confident Russia will do a lot to muddy the waters (since the process will appear to them and you as a ploy from the West)

It was an error. A passenger jet at 30,000 feet looks pretty much like a bomber.

@Lukian

It's probability - from previous examples.

It may be Russia - but I doubt it. Just as I doubt Facebook protects our data.

@Ellatynemouth stop changing the subject and making false equivalencies. What does FB have anything to do with this. I'm out.

@Lukian

It was an example used to illustrate the lengths cover ups can go to.

We don't agree. That's fine. It's a waste of time arguing

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