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SCHRODINGER'S GOD

As a scientist, I've been very drawn to quantum mechanics. One of the things I like to do is, much like newtonian physics has allowed distinct philosophical directions to be explored, to allow QM to also provide philosophical directions.

For me, one of the most (not the only to be sure) important philosophical contributions of QM to philosophy is Schrodinger's Cat.

I would like to give an example as it applies to my views as an agnostic.

To me, the theist view of "God Exists" can relate to "The Cat is alive".
That Atheist view of "God does not Exist" to "The Cat is alive"
But the agnostic view of "I don't know if god exists" to "The cat is both dead AND alive".

The reason this analogy works so well, IMO, is because critical to Scrhodingers Cat paradox is that until we "open the box" we don't know what state the Cat is in. Likewise, as an agnostic, until we "close the box" of being alive, we won't know whether god does or does not exist. Of course, no analogy is perfect: after all if there is no afterlife, then there is no knowledge after death. But I think there is an important lesson in the fact that Schrodingers Cat is true in reality, it's a "real" phenomena, and thus there are are more options than simply "God does OR does not exist" such as "God does AND does not exist".

I look forward to any thoughts y'all might have on my application of Schrodinger's Cat to the topics of religion or otherwise.

TheMiddleWay 8 Dec 18
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6 comments

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@TheMiddleWay - Like Heisenberg, I'm uncertain. I am sure of this, though, the idea of god(s) is immaterial. Of this, Planck would approve to the max. In the meantime, I'll sit back and observe.

@AMGT - Yes, somewhat. Definition is the poison (killer) in that box with the god. Define the god and the god is dead. Leave the box closed and avoid the definition and it can be alive if you wish it to be so. That is how theists save themselves and preserve their beliefs. Name all the fairy tale attributes you want, just don't ... for god's sake ... define the damned thing.

@AMGT Things exist whether we define the thing or not. Was there a quark before we called it or could conceive of it? Or are we the gods and they only come into being when we discover and define them.....OOOO....OOOO...OOOO....I'm going for the second one...

@JohnnyThorazine -- Here's the thing about the word 'exist'. Exist needs a place somewhere on the space-time continuum or it does not exist. God(s) by definition are beyond space and time so they can't, by our definition of space and time, exist. Now, here's the thing about that pesky little word 'define'. To define something it must have some sort of parameters that are observable/measurable/testable or it doesn't exist. Thus, the moment one defines god, said god is no longer supernatural and hence is not a god -- by definition. It is in a place and a time and is subject to the nature of the universe and not vice verse. You can place attributes, invisible, unknowable, omnipotent, omniscient, omniwhatever, because all that does not represent measurable, observable, or testable things. They are ideas brought into play by sleight of mind and maintained by smooth doublespeak.

I'm typing this after waking up 2 minutes ago, so here it goes: names are a human problem. It's a relational thing. Ask those rare rare rare people who can read binary code. But a description of something is just the fleshing out of something so it can be shared information. I see a cult in the future (The Cult of Boob...She Who Weans From the Center, The Cyclopean Weaner...no...but I'm getting there...).

@evidentialist Space and Time, two things that are being constantly redefined. Theories of Multiverses, multiple dimensions, etc. Within your parameters god can be defined within acceptable values: the universe, being a functional system could be defined as God, creating planets, life etc. So the question isn't whether god, or the universe, exists, it is whether god, or the universe, is sentient. So god exists, but it's awareness is the only question. Now, you realize you are claiming you are completely aware of the natures of existence. How things exist is constantly changing. And you also confuse people's speculation on the existence of god as the reality of god. I can speculate you are an albino Samoan, as all I have is very small picture that you have supplied to define your existence and a lot of typing. I have to assume you are not a bot....but it is only an assumption. So your nature is truly unknown to me, there for, Is that you Evidentialist? it's me Johnny Thorazine. Now I am gonna go get coffee....

@TheMiddleWay HAHAHA! Yep! Good choice in picking 'red'. I don't see shades of 'red' so when people tell me that I am wearing a pink shirt, I can only relate to that in the way that people relate to me about it and take their word for it that 'pink' exists. The mutability of existence. I started calling it non-platform science decades ago. The thing you are standing on as 'fact' is only as solid as you think it is, not as it really is or could be. Now for coffee...I'm gonna get that coffee, damn it.

@TheMiddleWay -- Aye, lad, true enough. Would ye be forgivin' me lil lapse o' thought there?

However, I think your assessment is just a tad off -- not that it's wrong or anything like that, but wouldn't it be more like this? Because it occupies space-time it is measurable and therefor exists whether or not it has actually been measured. Case in point: When was the last time we measured dark matter other than by inference?

@TheMiddleWay -- I return to a neutral corner in the circular room to catch my breath.

Yes, sir, QM is ... at least ... entertaining.

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That almost reminds me of The Wager- Pascal. He would simply go around the cat and would say to us to seek God, to live this life believing in the existance of God because if, at death, we are correct and there Is no god, we have lost but a mere span of time, a few pleasures and sins we averted in exchange for a godly life. However, if god Does exist, we stand to gain far more than one measly human lifetime could ever be worth. It was his ace in the hole. I suppose he figured all those pesky years in between, the ones in which we are lied to, or misled, or blindfolded to... the life you give up, the small box you live within the parameters of... if he seemed to think those years, the ones in the Entirety of your life are worth Nothing, then good for him, live that way. I, however, have lived Both ways, and even Buddhist as well. I have seen Many different ways, different eyes of faith and... I would Muuch rather live as I do today that return back to that box I once resided within. Stepping away from god, although terrifying for me for the first initial years, once i was fully liberated, it was like... stepping out into The Universe. I felt free. Now i require proof. I will not waste my life or credit some... big guy in the sky for my achievements. I will not credit a ghost for the life I live. I am a good person for the sake of being a Good person. I have my own set of mores, laws and rules. I am a good person without the bribing of life eternal. What I do that is good, it is done of My Will, my Own accord. If you live your life within the confines of a box, you have wasted your entire existence.

Sadoi Level 7 Jan 1, 2018

So, what you are saying is, you've left your box for a bigger box....good for you!,,,hehe

@JohnnyThorazine hahah! Well, in a sense, I suppose that is good a gander as any!! lol! I left the pond to move to a larger sea. Someday I hope to leave the sea for the Marianas Trench. After that... launch me into space? Its still a box. However, a box so large the chances of me ever finding the edge is near impossible, hence, I will never know a limitation. With religion, the box was sooo painfully small that I tended to hit the edge every few seconds. 😉

@Sadoi The fun is always searching for that wall and breaking through...and knowing that there are more walls to shatter!

@JohnnyThorazine I absolutely agree with you! And i feel like a champ afterwards like... i just passed a new level on Dr Mario or Tetris! hahaha!

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My first thought about the Quantum Mechanics is the theory that a particle can exist in two different places at the same time. So, the Cat being alive and dead at the same time would be similar. Of course as with everything, Schrodinger's cat was based on perception. The fact that the cat could exist in both states is due to a lack of knowledge, not as physical evidence. Quantum Mechanics also gives particles two perceptions: as a wave and as a particle. Now I would agree that a good "pun" would be the Uncertainty Principle. 😉 which states the momentum and position of a particle cannot both be precisely determined at the same time.

cool

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Very good post on this subject. I would come back with... Alive and Death is a term used in this plane of existence. We have no concept or idea what is in the afterlife. Therefore, the box doesn't exist where God (per our construct) exist.

I don't know much or anything about Quantum Physics.

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I do think this works. Appling Schrodinger's Cat to whether god exists or not does work for me. Years a go I read "The Dancing Wu Li Masters" enjoyed it and just found it in a box fo keeps sakes I pulled out of storage.

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A man after my own heart....yep! And then the whether it exists or not, really is only your problem if you can affect 'god'. If you don't believe in god, and it does or doesn't exist, it doesn't change the nature of god. If you look at belief as a gravitational force surrounding a core idea, then we are all effected by god, whether we believe in it or not. I am free form typing here....and being attacked by a cat (no kidding, my cat is attacking my hand while I am trying to type). Coincidence? I think not....though, I probably totally do....hehe

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