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Is there phenomenology without a self? In other words, can one separate the subjective idea / narrative of "self" from the study of experience?

snthszr 4 Sep 1
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0

I think it comes back to the old story of if a tree falls in a forest & nothing hears it (no sentient being), is the event real. It seems unlikely there would be a forest with no sentient being to hear it, but assume there is.

So assume someone comes along later & says, "There used to be a tree standing there & now it's on the ground". We can assume what happened by the evidence, so our evidence makes it real for us, but how about the thing in itself. It seems in this hypothetical example, there was a real "experience", which we may more properly call an event, without a self to experience it. But it appears to "study" experience, we must have a self to study it

Remiforce Level 7 Sep 29, 2019
0

I doubt it, very much. What we know as "experience" is filtered through our unique consciousnesses, and finds a place within same based on our unique and already formed perspective of "How things are," "How I am." And, "self" is the sum of our experiences, and how we each have organized them into our gestalt of being.

BirdMan1 Level 8 Sep 9, 2019
0

No. All external reality is perceived through the senses. It's what makes it "external", the senses act as the interface. And this necessitates the presence of a subject as loci for each set of senses. And all internal experience is internal to a subject. Either one necessarily includes a subjective self.

towkneed Level 7 Sep 3, 2019
0

In my opinion experience requires observation and or measurement.
This in turn requires sentience or a sentient being to perform the observation and or measurement.
A sense of self or consciousness is a prerequisite of sentience in beings of higher intelligence therefore phenomenology requires a basic frame of reference between the observed and the observer and that in reductionist terms boils down to "I am" and "that is".

2

I'm working my way through Kant's Critique of Pure Reason. I'm only about 100 pages in but I would say from what I've read that every experience, from the five senses or formed in concept, is subjective.

brentan Level 8 Sep 2, 2019

Brave man! In German or translation!

@Geoffrey51 Translation. I'm not that brave! I can't tell my anschauungs from my begreifens.

3

None of human pursuits are truly objective.

True since even adopting an objective stance is a subjective decision.

2

I think we interpret experiences subjectively, come to conclusions about them that are made up, based on mood, type of experience, and who it was with, if positive or negative. I do think we can step back, and see the event as just the facts. Ex he didn't want to.be in the relationship, instead of he had commitment issues, or my parents were not cuddly as they didn't love me or were cold.

it is helpful being in relationships to me with people who can tell me how my thinking sounds to them and be a sort of mirror of introspection, instead of me only having my own thoughts to bang around in my head.

gigihein Level 8 Sep 1, 2019
3

Those who meditate deeply, though, claim to detach experience from the idea of a self, and apparently FMRI scans have indicated that activity in the area of the brain that many consider a potential neurocorrelate (the Default Mode Network) to the feeling of self is dialed way down while meditating. That FMRIs are not always reliable, and that neuroscience is still very young, are not lost on me, but it's still interesting to consider. Phenomenology is one of my favorite areas of philosophy, so these kinds of things occupy whatever passes for my brain rather often.

snthszr Level 4 Sep 1, 2019

I personally use meditation for exactly the opposite, to better know my "self" and understand my experiences and their impact upon me fully.

2

No, how would you do that? What is experience without a self to experience?

Beautifully stated.

2

It depends on what drugs you are using.

gater Level 7 Sep 1, 2019
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