I have noticed how well gun control works in Mexico. How about some sanity for a change. and yes if guns are outlawed only outlaws will have guns.

@Oldman51 I find it strange that this argument is even happening. because as I see it the real issue has never been ether to ban or not ban guns, but to have better information so that people who are mentally unstable cannot have access to them and minors are protected from access.

Not 100% true. Some are designed simply for competition & speed shooting. Something you wouldn't want to go out hunting with.

Hey spike you know I'm a member of both groups. I support gun rights, but I also support lots of gun laws. I'm in the middle of the road.

@TheGreatShadow That's fine. Mike Flora is in my group too, and he used to host this group.

@SpikeTalon Yeah I know. He changed his mind about a lot of things tho.

@TheGreatShadow I consider that a good thing...

Said "arsenal" could be used for sport/competition shooting, like many of us gun owners do. I'm against most Democrat proposed safety nets because they get funding for said social programs from the paychecks of hard working people like me, not to mention the many individuals on government assistance who game the system and could get a job to support themselves but don't. I know, I'm surrounded by quite a few scuz bags that share the same apartment complex who sit on their duff all day collecting government assistance all the while they are able bodied enough to go out and get a job, but they don't. People like that hurt our society. Regarding the last part of your comment, we do live in that kind of society, and let's not forget we are an animal, and animals are wired by nature to preserve their own existence. Those who do not do for themselves or are strong enough to survive will be taken care of by nature, that's reality and life goes on. We human beings would love to think otherwise though...

@SpikeTalon there's a falsehood that's held by arrogant people who believe ALL poor people sit on their ass and just don't want to work.that's just what you rich people say and think. When the average hardworking person can't afford Mental Health Service for a child who is at risk and perhaps mentally Disturbed ,this might be another school shooting. who knows, maybe a rich person's child dressed in $2,000 outfit living in a big million dollar home might be the next victim. I do believe that humans are animals and we are . Humans are pack animals. Not only do we care for own offspring, but we cannot exist as independent Hunters. Someone had to raise you, someone had to teach you, someone had to give you opportunities, someone even has to put food on the shelves at the grocery store so you can use your money to buy them, someone had to manufacturer that food, make your expensive clothes, every single item that you own is possible because of the work of millions of other people. There is not one person on the face of this planet that can claim to be a self-made millionaire they don't exist. And when one segment goes down, like the average working poor person, it's felt throughout the entire system.

@Kojaksmom Not saying all poor people are lazy. I am however saying an honest observation only based on my direct experiences, there are many people on government assistance that could go out and get a job and yet don't. While at birth and growing up we need the help of others, once adult many of us are capable of going solo and I'm sure you've heard of people who are living off the grid, handymen so to speak. Our cave men ancestors were far more independent than most of us are nowadays. Hhmm... it appears as though you do realize how important free market capitalism is, that's promising. The term self made millionaire is not what most people think it means, it simply means that they did their own work and earned their own money. My great grandfather on my mother's side of the family came to this country from Italy without so much as a dime in his pocket. He worked in the railroad business and within roughly 22 years he became a millionaire. His hard work brought him success and he made sure wealth stayed in his family. Achieving wealth can be done in this country but it does take a certain determination that of which seems to be missing these days in people. The founder of Facebook is a self made rich man, he thought up something that of which many others would want to use/interact with and funded his work with advertising. He did that himself. I think the answer to our problem in the long run is to create more jobs not safety nets. Afterall, wouldn't it be more ideal if we could solve the problem rather than rely so much on safety nets, which other hard working people fund. You might have some more in your paychecks if it wasn't being deducted to go towards social welfare programs, which were dreamed up by Democrats. In the end, we have the problems we have in this country because neither the Democrats or Republicans keep their campaign promises.

@SpikeTalon humans were not independent solitary Hunters. Humans were tribal when we were evolving. as long as the minimum wage is not a living wage more jobs will do no good. The fact is the Filthy Rich 2% are the biggest welfare recipients in the world. The average hard-working American does see an increase in taxes because the Filthy Rich business owners refuse to pay a living wage. Many of them hire only part-time people so they don't have to pay benefits. Benefits these days are nothing like they used to be for our parents. You can't look to your great-grandfather and use him as an example for what goes on today. it's a completely different time. There's absolutely nothing that stays the same. the founder of Facebook may be rich ,but he has only people who use his services that make him that way.

@Kojaksmom You are right things have changed... Back in the old days people worked strictly for wages, for the most part there was no such thing as benefits, and I am going way back there. That might be a problem too, too many people want outrageous benefits alongside of their wages. Maybe businesses would be inclined to pay higher wages if more people felt responsible to chase their own benefits and pay for them? Benefits cost money as well.

@SpikeTalon if Yeah wasn't so greedy and charged $2,000 a month for private insurance maybe they would. There is absolutely zero way that the insurance companies are going to try and accommodate those with lower wages and give them affordable good insurance. You are dead wrong to believe that . Money is so much more valuable than anything in this country, and it really is our 'God'.that is the biggest pile of bullfuck I've ever heard in my life. Not everybody is l Filthy Rich like you. Libertarians for instance are the rich man's anarchists . Constitutional conservatives are also anarchists they don't believe in taxes or laws. Libertarians want to trade off the government for lawyers. There will be no laws against people selling items that would kill others to make a buck. People would be selling insurance plans with no money or intention to backup any claims cuz they would use it for themselves. Lawyers would rule the country.