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Lucifer vs God

I posted recently about going to church and what a waste of time that was.

I have however continued to have coffee with Brian the street preacher.

Fascinating guy. Always proclaiming, even one and one.

One of the recurring claims is that God is all forgiving, and Jesus has already paid the debt of my soul that day on the cross (which I find amusing, because if so he had no idea what the bill would be).

So, I posed a counterfactual - if God is all forgiving, what would happen if Lucifer repented and asked for forgiveness?

The answer was a flat out no. I asked why. Apparently it's because Lucifer looked God in the face and, in his arrogance, thought he was better than God. And hence Lucifer was cast out for all eternity. No redemption for Luce, nosireebob.

Which posed the proposition - this God of which we speak is not all forgiving. I would go further and suggest this alleged deity has a thin skin and a glass jaw. And if God will never forgive Lucifer, who else is on that list?

Thoughts?

Palindromeman 7 June 18
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8 comments

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1

There's apparently a heretical Muslim interpretation of Satan as God's most devoted worshiper. The angels were commanded first to kneel to none but God. Then after man was created, they were told to kneel before Man. Satan refused; his love for God would not allow him to kneel to anyone else. So Satan is cast out, still as God's greatest worshiper.

In this interpretation, all that sustains Satan in Hell is the memory of his beloved God's voice saying "Begone!"

(I don't know this firsthand, I heard it in a Joseph Campbell lecture. But I trusted Joe to have done the reading.)

Interesting. I find that interpretation even more chilling.

@Palindromeman I may be remembering this wrong, but I got the impression that God, in this version, actually regrets exiling Satan. He's in the position of a commander who can't tolerate insubordination, even from one he loves.

@Paul4747 Then that deity is a douchebag.

@Palindromeman Well, yeah

2

In my reading of the the Bible Lucifer is a much better character than Yahweh.

I figure he's a cool and misunderstood guy. Lucifer in my written fiction has a completely kick ass daughter and spends his off time recovering artwork stolen by the Nazis.

3

All angels are not on the list. Jesus died to save man, not angels.

But it's a moot point as it's all just fiction anyhow.

arnies Level 7 June 19, 2018

They are a complicated family, to say the least. The Old Man aka God, archangels, angels, demons and then the rest of us. That is not a company I want to sign on to.

3

I'm sick of religion. That's my thoughts.

I'm just sick of it.

Awwww, c'mon - humanity needs reasons for us to kill each other. Religion is a great one.

@Palindromeman

There's tons of other stuff too. It's all here, dressed up as atheism: misogyny, Islamaphobia, racism, homophobia.

I need a cup of tea.

@Ellatynemouth I'm enjoying my Ardberg single malt whiskey, but I know what you are saying.

0

I would imagine Adam and Eve might be on the shortlist. Disobeying god in person, cast out of paradise and all that.

Denker Level 7 June 19, 2018
3

Well God is kind of stuck between a rock and a hard place. if he's all-forgiving and forgives Lucifer who's going to manage hell? congress maybe? the chump is already orange. so theres that..... there is still Falwell, and friends and, ole collection plate Olsteen.... false alarm - plenty of contenders.

It's simple - Hell just become part of the franchise. God and Lucifer go out for cocktails and settle their differences. See? I can be a street preacher too 🙂

@Palindromeman I can almost imagine that on Fox News.

@Palindromeman you probably could but you might need to Slick your hair back or something.

@hankster Have you even seen my profile photo? I invite you to find a hair to slick back 🙂

@Palindromeman lol...those guys just seem greasy i reckon. i hadnt noticed

@hankster Jeff Sessions also appears to have completely abandoned the idea of a moral compass (if he ever had one). A lot if it around these days, I think.

3

Seems like you caught Brian the street preacher in an inconsistency. Of course, he might not have stated his original position carefully enough so you might want to give him a chance to revise it in the interest of fair play. On the other hand, many Christians do not accept his theology to begin with. For example, "the unpardonable sin" was a big deal in the tradition I was reared in and he is denying that there is such a thing (if I understand you).

Ugh. It is a mass of contradictions (pun intended). There is always the get out of jail free card "the lord moves in mysterious ways." That is such a cop out, seriously.

1

It’s hard to discuss any holy book. There is just flat no evidence for a god or gods.

Indeed!

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