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My 16 yr old son is about to become an Eagle Scout in a few months. One of his friends moms who is a hardcore christian conservative pulled my son aside to tell him he may have some trouble getting his Eagle due to his being Agnostic. I assured him its all semantics and as long as he identifies his good moral character and his "beliefs" that help guide him that this should be good enough without lying or conforming.
Im quite honestly very upset w this woman but my son, who is an old soul and can handle issues like that way better than I can, reasurred me that its people like her are the exact reason he wants nothing to do with religion.
He absolutely gets it that he cannot say he does or does not believe as it is a christian organization that he has worked on most of his life. He only recently became interested in politics and was able to name his beliefs and in red state Indiana he is the minority for those alone

Any advice for my son on how he should handle the religious aspect of his becoming and Eagle Scout?

SunnySmiles 6 Oct 9
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14 comments

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3

You give your son credit as you should but take some for yourself too. You gave him the gift of rational thought and love, that is all you.

Thank you hun

3

I'm also originally from Indiana and I know how it can be up there.
This really aggravates me when someone thinks they can pull someone else's child aside and try to infect them with their disease.

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Seems like he doesn’t need advice, because you’ve done great teaching him. His “old soul” is a an asset, and as long as he remembers to think before he speaks, he should be fine. 🙂

1

Read the scouting oath. It specifies GOD. not which , or who's. but a god. So if this good christian woman wants, she can block him if he openly opposes worshiping, or denies a god.

1

He seems like hes doing pretty well already

2

tell them that is unconstitutional. they tried to kick me out or rehab because i said i don't believe in god. i said do it the constitution of the united states says i don't have to. they can't do that.

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It sounds like he is doing just fine. You raised a fine young man and should be proud.

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I spent many years as a cub scout and boy scout and was a Jr. Asst. Scoutmaster. At the time I was struggling internally with the dark secret that I was a homosexual though at 16 I barely knew what that word meant and certainly had not acted on any of my impulses. I was called to a meeting with the scoutmaster and three fathers and told I was "queer," which I thought meant "odd" and was kicked out of the troop. I had achieved "Life" status and was working on becoming an "Eagle." I joined another troop. Today, I think that was a big mistake but at the time I did not have the social or political understanding I do now. I know your son has invested a great deal to achieve this rank and I understand his desire to follow through. But I think his rationalizing his way through his current dilemma will be something he will regret one day. It is an act of ratifying the legitimacy of a group that does not honor the diversity of our society. Accepting the rank of "Eagle" given his own beliefs condones their continued bigotry and a furthering of their conservative social agenda. I would propose two option. First, just quit and move on without them being allowed to add his name to a roster that will follow him all his life and which will strengthen their influence. Or, two, go out in a blaze of glory at the presentation ceremony and "Sock it to the Harper Valley PTA" with a speech clearly defining his own beliefs and making known the dissonance that the Scouts have caused in his own head considering the difference between their beliefs and his own. Neither is an easy path to follow. But to stick by his guns and proclaim his identity would be an important exercise on his road to becoming a man.

Thanks Garebear517 im so sorry you had to deal with that but you seem like you are doing extremely well in life. My son has tossed it around and around in his head. When he first started he was very small like 1st grade so neither of us knew he woukd take it this far. And it wasnt til the other mother even mentioned that did we start really investigating what his roll as an Eagle would mean. Id absolutely LOVE for him to sock it to em (btw Harper valley pta is my mantra lol) but it will ultimately be his decision. Ill keep u posted!

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Just last night, I went to the Boy Scouts web site after the announcement that they would allow girls to join. Their charter was an act of the US congress (verified this, <a href="http://uscode.house.gov/view.xhtml?req=(titl"Sam Harris Live w/ Michael Shermer"%20chapter:309%20edition" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank" class="forumlink">[uscode.house.gov]😛relim)%20OR%20(granuleid:USC-prelim-title36-chapter309)&f=treesort&num=0&edition=prelim ). All the religious stuff is in their bylaws. It seems to me that this makes it part of the US Federal government, and as such, these religious requirements are in violation of the First Amendment to the US Constitution. Maybe this has already been settled in the US Supreme Court. I'm still doing research on this.

On the face of it, I'm opposed to the religious requirements. The apparent constitutional issue makes this an even bigger issue for me.

So many loopholes in organizations such as these. Thanks for the link!

There are a ton of organizations under Title 36. I might go through them someday, as I'm curious how many more of them have religious overtones.

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I just want to say your son is a saint. I personally can't give any advice because I have no patience to be in something that is religious affiliated unless I was getting paid really good money.

Oh he isnt a saint lol. But the religious stuff has been minor and he only in the last few years started identifying as Agnostic. He is respectful of other religions (will bow his head but not pray) and has a way higher tolerance than I do

1

my grandson Michael is a junior at Cathedral, a life Scout with only his Eagle project awaiting. He is on the Rugby team, defending national Champs. Good for your son. I am more in line with you on issues like that. Good Christians are way too busy being good Christians to pull young people aside and try to maliciously hurt them. Tell him to fall back on a doctors creed---first do no harm. That all the major religions all have but one god. They can't all be wrong can they? In America we cannot put one ahead of the other without infringing on rights, so we much respect all the beliefs and the best way is to keep our personal relationship with divinity personal---within ourselves and sharing only with the higher poser we believe in an dit is infringing upon that right to have to answer questions about who what how we believe our freedom of religion absolves us of the necessity of answering such questions unless you want to sign a statement saying that I have to answer. and get it notarized as a legal document that I can take to court. That should solidify his position...don't you think?

Wait a few years and get him to join the Masons--become a Shriner---then the two of you can have some real fun. Shriners clowns, Shrine circus, etc. base upon Soloman's temple. so odd that Christians need all these reasons to do good--that doing good itself is not enough reason for them? I can
s explain it.......

1

It seems like he's already doing a good job handling them. I achieved Chief Scout (Canadian equivalent) when I was 16. I've never been religious, but not as well informed then as I am now. As long as he keeps looking for the truth, he'll be fine.

1

I have the same issue with my son who loves Boy Scouts and I love him participating in it. His name is Christian and he is a Christian, but he knows that I am vehemently opposed to religion, so I have issues with all of the God stuff in Scouts. I generally fake it when I am at meetings, etc., and I would never be a Scout leader as I know I could or would not want to pretend a belief in God. It's bad enough that the religious effectively lie to their children so I would feel an utter hypocrite if I lied knowing there is no God. It is a shame that Scouts is so religious but I do know it depends on which Pack and Troop you are with. There are quite a few around here in SoCal that are not as religious as others. You just have to cherry pick, just like Christians do with the bible in the first place. I dream of a secular society! Can't we have our own state? Just a little one?

A Utopia (sigh) maybe not in our lifetime but perhaps in our childrens...

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