Yeah, we're like that here. It was supposed to be a dating site, too, but we turned it into something else entirely - poor @Admin must feel like s/he's herding anarchist cats.

Atheism is a statement of belief, or lack there of. I do not believe in the existence of any gods, because I have been provided no compelling evidence.

Agnostic is a statement of knowledge. You can be either gnostic - I KNOW something to be true, or I have the knowledge that something is true; or agnostic - I DON'T KNOW if it is true, or I don't have enough knowledge to know if it is true.

So you can be an Agnostic Atheist, Gnostic Atheist (very uncommon - because they are claiming a god does not exist), an Agnostic Theist (what has generally been referred to as the colloquial "Agnostics" ), or a Gnostic Theist.

I am an Agnostic Atheist - I don't believe that any gods exist, but I don't claim to know that one doesn't exist. I do put the probability of the existence of any god at 0.00001%, but I can't say I KNOW one doesn't exist.

I also add a little something extra on there, for me, I'm actually an agnostic apatheist - I don't believe that any gods exist, and even if one did exist, I wouldn't care because I don't think any god is worthy of worship, or that eternal life is a good thing.

What is your question?

I like to consider this a site of free-thinkers because it runs the gamut from spiritual-but-not-religious to staunch atheist. The common connection is not believing in a traditional all-powerful god, questioning belief, and thinking for one's self.

Agnostic.com just sounds more inclusive than atheist.com.

I still have a like of using both of those words together. I am a philosophical agnostic yet practical atheist. Also, if you pay attention to the main page here it also mentions that many freethinkers are welcome here.

First of all, welcome, and I hope you enjoy the site. As with others, I generally view the term agnostic as "not knowing, one way or the other", but I also agree that to say "no god(s) exist" is problematic, as others have pointed out - you can't prove the negative any more than religious people can prove the opposite.

I identify as atheist, my position is that there is no evidence to prove the existence of god(s), but that depends on who my conversation is with - if I am annoyed with a conversation and want to shut it down, I will say there is no god, and that usually shuts them up.

Not all atheists are the same either, some of us come from religious backgrounds, so the path away from religion might be more painful for us that have vs. those that had no religion at all.

I like the term "heretic", which from my understanding of the definition means that I have learned your dogma, and reject all of it, which would be between atheist and agnostic, as if to say "I don't know what God is, but I know what it isn't".

My $0.02...

I agree. I consider myself to be agnostic, and there seem to be many atheists here. I see this as a religion free zone, which is sometimes quite nice.

It appears to me that you are comparing Agnostic to A-theist and they are NOT the same. You are correct with the definitions of both.

I think that your posted definition of agnostic could be simplified by saying:

Agnostic- of knowledge (“lack of” in this case)

Atheist- of belief in gods (also “lack of” in this case)

An agnostic atheist- lacks belief in gods due to lack of knowledge

Knowledge is a subset of belief

I find atheists who thrust their beliefs on people to be just as disconcerting as Christians who do the same. I say to each his own and I am firmly in the agnostic category that you describe.

I don't understand your first paragraph, suggesting a contrast between what you were expecting and what you have found here, specifically what makes an agnostic or the agnostic position.

Regarding definitions, these are yours, and they are basic, but search the post history and you will find many posts and discussions going back to the formation of the site, about these kinds of definitions. Sometimes the debates are quite rigorous, consistent with a community of free thinking people.

Sounds about right - Agnostic= don't know, Aetheist = don't believe

In simplist terms I as an Athiest have come to the conclusion that there are no gods and no evidence for an afterlife etc

An agnostic to me is simply someone that says they don't know one way or the other...and don't follow any particular religious dogma.

I'm atheist and agnostic. I don't believe there are any gods, but I also don't believe anyone can know whether any gods exist. I don't know there isn't any god, but I simply don't believe there is a god.

I live a good life, and it shouldn't matter if there are any gods or not. Have better things to do than worship a god that may or may not exist. While others are praying, some of us are doing.

We have a lot of sources for determining morality and ethics, besides our civic laws, family values taught by parents and kindergarten teachers, we experience natural consequences in social situations, we have centuries of literature and history, and even memes on social media for reminders of how we should live our lives.

I really don't see much of a moral compass within the pages of the bible. I can determine right from wrong it seems easier than the god of the bible could when considering some of the horrific things it is said that he did. Wow. If he wants me to believe in and worship him, he's going to have to try harder to earn my respect.

There are many differing views here I have discovered which is ideal for this sort of group. If everyone thought the same there would be no point, we would just be jollying each other along with self-congratulatory arrogance and create a closed loop, going nowhere.

We challenge each other and, in the most part, respect each others views and, more importantly, learn from those who have been fortunate to study in the areas that we haven't. We are complementary to each other.

If you are looking for a cosy afternoon chat by the fireside, this is probably not the place. However, if you want to be challenged and expand your intellectual boundaries, there is nowhere better.

Your Question?

I consider myself to be an agnostic, simply because I don’t write anything in stone and so if it was proven in some future time that god existed...I would have to accept facts! But, at this moment in time there is no rational reason to believe in a god! Of note here, I have suddenly come to think that there might be life on other planets and that happened at 78 yr of age! It never occurred to me that if there is one earth, why would there not be one or more other types of earths in a vast universe! It is amazing what happens to your mind, when you escape the indoctrination of a religion!

I’m a true agnostic. Most of the members are atheistic.

They have to pick a name for the site, and agnosticsandatheistsanddoubtingbelievers was a bit harder to remember. But the site caters to all of those categories, to provide a service to people not served by the sites like christianmingle or equallyyoked. Every user has tags on the popup when you hover over their name: atheist, agnostic, antitheist, skeptic, secularist, etc.

"just asking for my own benefit" - was there a question in your post? Because there weren't any actual question marks.

In the words of Monty Python: Well I've always said, There's nothing an agnostic can't do if he really doesn't know whether he believes in anything or not.

I don’t know if the standard labels tell the whole story. As I see it, if you say either that you believe there is a God or you do not believe there is a God, you are talking about yourself. There is no obligation to prove or even explain statements about yourself. If you state that there is a God, or that there is no God, you have made a bald-faced assertion that will need justification if you are to maintain credibility. If you are a Canadian you can just add “aye” at the end of your assertion, thereby turning the statement into a question and slithering away without having to present an argument.

But there are different confidence levels of any belief. Contrary to what is often said, there is almost always SOME evidence for a belief. How much credence a person gives that evidence determines the strength of the belief. Except for a few superficial identities nothing is known with absolute certainty.

I am in the uncomfortable position of being a theist of sorts. So far I haven’t been driven off the site—I’m holding my breath. I lean toward the idea of universal consciousness, with a confidence level of 95%. Whether “universal consciousness” is God is an open question, but it really boils down to semantics. Perhaps the subject will be subjected to scientific investigation at some point.

Hi Reelax99

• I once heard Jillette Penn (of Penn & Teller), a well-known atheist, articulate a point on this that I think is worth passing along, even though I'm not sure I agree with it. [edit: rather than my speaking for him, here is some of his view, it is only in tthe first 30-60 seconds, the rest is not really that relevant.]

In the end, after an edit or two, I'm not entirely sure how I personally would define agnosticism, so it's a bit hard for me to articulate my views. Also, although it's nice to have a quick sound bite from Jillette above, I don't think this fully gets at the lengthier video comments I seem to remember hearing from him.

• My own view (elevator pitch version) is that:
  a) taking a tabula-rasa first-handed approach to the discussion, a "God" hypothesis does not occur naturally (though there is a sense of mystery and wonder as one contemplates existence and the universe). So, I regard it as being on others to explain to me why I should consider their hypothesis.
  b) if I do contemplate this hypothesis, and try to take into account the sheer size of what we're talking about (all-powerful? seriously? over that many galaxies? over every fraction of a second of movement of every particle and thought and so-on?), then the answer is nope.

If that is a cheap or petty or overly-easy argument and someone wants to say, well, maybe not all-powerful, but very powerful, I'll say, yeah, but even if we take a fraction of a fraction, I just don't see it as possible. I may be using term incorrectly, but I think of this as an inductive argument of a sort (and again, I'm not sure if that's correct) wherein I try to imagine a supernatural entity that controls x, and then expand the "job" of that entity, and it rapidly becomes untenable (IMO).

• So, I think there is an argument that can be made that agnosticism and atheism could be construed as being at odds with each other.

• Anyway, regardless of all from my personal point of view, your question spurred in me to go and read the page "about us" area and if it hasn't been done already, I encourage it:

[agnostic.com]

I am not that inclined to spend a lot of time on it, but my first impression is that one can reasonably read this to be a page of some intentional inclusiveness, so there should be room here not only for 100% non-believers but for folks who are themselves unsure or who believe certainty isn't possible. As well, I noticed in the profile area where we fill things out, one can self-identify as having something less than 100% certainty that there is no god.

• So, I think if we take a really strict constructionist approach, then there's some tension here between ways of looking at this. However, if we take a somewhat different approach, then there is room here for some difference of view. Also, if you are running into atheists giving you a hard time (and some can be a pain on this, but they are used to coming from a place of being given a hard time themselves by theists, and may misinterpret your own views as kind of trying to smuggle something in)... then I wonder if there are measures you can take to make great use of this board, but reduce the tension. This can include trying to be up-front on your profile (I see that you have filled out the questions honestly, so I'm not criticizing) and maybe ultimately starting your own discussion area... I'm sure you can find other like-minded people. A bit more context is that in my view this board is relatively rare and seems to be growing because it is a fairly well run place, and it just isn't necessarily "that" easy to find a robust well-organized discussion community of like-minded folks, if one does not believe.

So, I don't think we are really on the same page on some major points (as to god) but I do think this area we find ourselves in seems welcoming to both of us and I hope you're able to find good discussion and meet people here.

Atheism and agnosticism are different is correct. But you have the definitions slightly wrong.

Agnostic is a position of knowledge, Atheism is a position of belief. Technically most are agnostic atheists.

It’s currently the most intellectually honest position to hold.

I am Atheist to the current stock of god myths humanity has conjured as they lack credibility. Not one stands up to any kind of scrutiny and religions continued dominance is sustained by poor education and dogmatism.

No true free thinker would say with 100% certainty that a supernatural being with unknown attributes could not or does not exist. We don’t know enough. And considering the size of our universe the possibilities are beyond imagination.

An atheist today could say with some degree of certainty that the current stock of God’s myths don’t exist (position of knowledge) as the characteristics and events they are responsible for don’t have evidence.

Your definition of Agnostic as shown in the threadstarter is how I understand the term. I consider myself Agnostic. I KNOW a lot of things but when it comes to the existence of a God or Gods I just feel I've never had any experience that tilted me in the direction of belief and nobody has presented objective, reproducible evidence of the existence of same. I'm 100% ok with saying "I don't know and as far as I'm concerned, neither does anyone else". I guess when I die I'll find out. Or maybe not. In any event, I would THINK a real deity would be a little more obvious about it.