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Who wants to talk about Plato? The Essenes are a reference to Plato's Theory of Forms or Essences. NOW who wants to talk about Plato?

MasonicPrince 4 Nov 1
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Plato's theory of forms is only concerns a small part of his 35 dialogues and his latter dialogues (Parmenides, Statesman, Sophist) are self critical of the theory.

cava Level 7 Nov 1, 2018

I think it was only Parmenides.

@MasonicPrince His Sophist and the Statesman were his attempt to methodologically move past his theory of Forms

@cava Nope. He was attempting to describe the philosopher, but ended up describing the sophist and the statemen only.

@MasonicPrince No. The Sophist (which I have studied and the Statesman which I have read but not studied), is about names, kinds, and collections, i.e., new methodological approaches to being.

@cava Remind me of the collections part.

@MasonicPrince It is a major part of his attempt to define what kind if a being the Sophist is...he looks at Anglers, Hunters, Merchants...
"By means of collection an inquirer brings together a number of disparate things or kinds of things, often called by different names, into one kind" [plato.stanford.edu]

@cava "a definition that applies to all and only members of the kind," now I see what you were saying. He is apparenly searching for a necessary-sufficient condition.

@MasonicPrince The Sophist is a difficult dialogue. He is trying to define what a Sophist is, and since Plato thinks they represent semblances of reality not reality itself, he has a difficult time of it. My notes suggest that he is (in a way similar to an Angler) is trying to set a net of arguments to catch a Sophist. Heidegger thought that the key part of the dialogue is Plato's attempt to separate true images from simulacrum, as unveiling of the truth (alethia).

@cava My understanding is that he talked about the angler to talk about how he gets his students to talk in terms of "is" and "is not." This, I believe, is the origin of the phrase "fisher of men."

@MasonicPrince The whole concept of difference runs through this dialogue, it asks what it is to be real and what is to be a simulacrum.

"...talk in terms of "is" and "is not"

I think it is more in terms of 'is' and 'appears', one of the points of the dialogue is that non-being is not. The Stranger concludes that 'non-being' is difference (I think Deleuze would agree with this)

@cava You have to read the next dialog in the complete works to hear him admit it. But if you are a sincere learner, and you read all of Plato, you will end up saying things like, "What is justice, and what is it not?"

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Don't know much about history... Of Plato that is... I'll follow and read... Thx

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Respect. Most Americans I know or hear on TV can't even put Greece on a map. Hurra for your intelligence!!

Stig Level 5 Nov 1, 2018

Actually, Plato is pretty simple. He just asks us, "What is justice?" or "What is the essence of justice?" and answers, "Improvement."

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