@Gooniesnvrdie I know of cats (all my life) that are fed well and still eat mice. Animal abuse in feed lots is not ignored...remedies are in place when this occurs. Are you aware of how many feeds lots there are in this country? There is bound to be isolated problems, when there are so many lots! Just like abuse in nursing homes, there is some out of touch individuals, who will abuse the patients! Human nature is not exact, in all humans!

@Gooniesnvrdie then don’t create any feed lots...it is not your ‘thing!’

I suspect take out menus myself.

@Gooniesnvrdie plants don’t have everything humans need to survive. In modern times the lacking nutrient components can be supplemented. This allows vegans to be healthy, however if it wasn’t for supplements they couldn’t survive.

Humans are omnivores.
Cats however are flesh eaters primarily. This is over 90% of their diet. Cats do get predigested greens and grains from the stomach of their prey. Cats are bird and rodent hunters primarily.
A cat only fed in plant protein will be malnourished and die. She’s forcing her belief system on onther being.

@Gooniesnvrdie thriving and surviving malnourished are not the same. Cats are obligate carnivores. They need to eat meat to survive. Their digestive system isn't made to handle anything else. They will not thrive on it and will likely die.

@Gooniesnvrdie
I don’t know your cat, but I know biology very well.

Cats get certain key nutrients from meat: taurine, arachidonic acid, vitamin A and vitamin B12. These are difficult or impossible to get from plants.

Also my cats eat a raw diet of organic humanly killed meat.

@Gooniesnvrdie but what sources do those ingredients come from?

@Gooniesnvrdie you’re the one that asked. Why ask questions that lead to these same arguments that you are tired of having?

@Gooniesnvrdie seems self destructive and very much like trolling. If you don’t want to discuss it then don’t get involved in the conversations.

@Gooniesnvrdie no because you stated you were tired of these conversations. Therefore stop having them or stop complaining about it. You control both of those options.

@Gooniesnvrdie I’m not pro meat. Im simply answering thing questions you’re asking. You’re defensive. I haven’t offered any incorrect information,

@darthfaja Do you have a good source to refer someone to a raw food pet diet? I have a friend who is interested.

@Gooniesnvrdie Is there a good reference for vegan options for cats? My friends cat has allergies and he's researching diets.
I couldn't find resources I knew were good on the topic.

@RavenCT I don’t have an easy go to site. I spoke with several vets I know, did some research, and went on advice from my cats breeder.

@darthfaja i did recommend his Vet - who was sending them to an allergy specialist.

It is difficult to get factual information about diet for anyone these days. We know a lot - but some is conjecture. And some diets descend into harm.

@RavenCT agree completely
Cats are fairly simple their diet in nature consists or rodents and birds primarily.

I may have mis-stated. They applied to be in the group.

As some groups on FB require. The moderator checked the profile and saw markers for conflict. So there was more than one aspect to this.

It was this being a determining factor that I found interesting however.

I'll make an addendum to the post.

Nice. I know rabbits have been caught eating carrion. That's how it starts. That's how we started eating meat.

If I didn't have so many food allergies and medical issues I might have been a vegan for moral reasons. (My pets however? No. They'd get meat.).

I do feel terribly for how animals suffer in the process of providing food for humans and that we seem to not value that at all - and we are so distanced from it.

It's barbaric in another sense entirely.

I've had friends who were hunters and in some ways felt better about what they did - than what goes on in food that's mass produced.

That part of me that loves animals? That part gets pretty freaked out by the whole thing.

My Grandmother used to kill a chicken for the family - than eat bread for dinner. I suspect I know how she felt. That's the part that wishes I could do vegan.

@RavenCT Wildlife that's Hunted lives a far better life and usually dies a far better death than anything the industries provide. and hunters often have a far better handle on healthy animal populations than the save the squirrels people..

@hankster I know. I wish I had that talent and ability too. And the stomach for it.

Of course I'm just like my grandmother. I'm sure in a survival situation I'd do just fine. And if I'd brought up that way? Nothing wrong with it.

Way more merciful than watching deer starve in deep winter. I've seen that a few times. It's awful.

They seem to balance that pretty well here in CT with the hunting licenses.

@RavenCT in some distopic future im sure you're quite the neck wringer...lol ? here the hunters have trouble keeping some populations in check.

@hankster Bow and arrow all the way.

@RavenCT boomerang!

@hankster i have swords! But no speed or stealth... Oh well...

@Gooniesnvrdie , I think that's the 'no fighting' rule

Oh I should explain it was an application for the group - they were not already a member. And no name was ever mentioned.

I believe this was to prevent trouble from beginning.

The group is for people with severe medical issues - they do not need extreme conflict. And apparently that might also have been an issue.

But it was a reaction I'd never seen before. And it made me curious how others viewed it.

Fairly certain half of my cats diet is souls.

@MFAtheist @Gooniesnvrdie I kind of knew? But wow! I can see both sides really well.

I'm surprised that others don't?

@RavenCT I'm not even picking a side, really. I just love how all the feelings in the thread make everyone come alive.

It's like some kind of magic.

The magic of meat.

Yes I feel terrible watching animals kill animals. I carry spiders out of the house. Cause one of the humans is phobic.

It's the way I am. It may be nature - it doesn't mean I like it? Or don't wish it were different.

Just the way I am - I see suffering as suffering. You should have seen me catching a kid frying ants with a magnifying glass? lol Little me had words!

That's just me. I'm ok with it.

@Healthydoc, And piss the lion off : )

It was years before I found out that paper wasp keep green horned worms under control.

Yes and no - you have to realize that many cat owners keep strictly indoor cats these days. (A big bone of contention in the pet community).

Now ask me how mice can get in the house in the deep winter in New England and be found by a house cat? Yup. Learned that last winter. What a surprise!

One of my three knows how to mouse. The other two were taken from their Mom's too young and can't hunt. They were really fascinated though.

@maturin1919 So you don't think pussy is capable then?

@maturin1919 Maybe you are right. I will have to talk to a vet and ask them about this.

I had a neighbor who shared coffee and oatmeal with her dog. And her husband shared his bacon and eggs. The dog had a great coat.

@RavenCT but his shoes were a right mess!

@MFAtheist that dog used to stand on me and lick the back of my neck while I giggled! She was a black border collie and terrific fun.

@RavenCT that dog sounds like it may have been a people once.

Taurine came to mind. But they make supplements. Whether they make vegan supplements? IDK.

And yes I was perplexed. I think there were other factors.

Logic! ?

Oh I don't actually know how they view companion animals? But I believe it is as companions as I do mine?

There are things done 'for their own good' but nothing else is forced. I have one cat that had a traumatic kittenhood and we touch on her terms - except for medical necessity or where health and well being is involved.

She seems good with that?

@RavenCT
I sure don’t have a problem with keeping pets myself, I have several. I’m just guessing that some vegans are opposed to it. I’m sure individual vegans vary. I just don’t see consistency in being unwilling to feed a carnivore meat, but being willing to keep it captive without its consent. See what I’m saying?

100% agree; furthermore, cats being obligate carnivores is the exact reason why dogs love to eat dried cat feces. Because of their extremely protein-rich diet, their feces retains a high protein content. To a dog, this is just like a little dried jerky stick.

Oh there would be no way? Because they're not at all domesticated.

My cat can still have small amounts of milk and cheese because he's continued to have trace amounts since kittenhood and didn't lose the enzyme. But I know that.

That logic applies in reverse as well. There are just things a non-domesticated animal would have to have. Or suffer.

She needed to consult a Vet at the very least. How very sad.

@RavenCT I deleted the part about the fennec fox because on further research I found I was incorrect.

I personally don't understand the vegan mentality (no insult intended), so I believe if an animal is meant to eat meat they should be provided meat. If you can't handle that, then get another pet.

We are animals and we can use artificial nutrients. Its all about how precisely the molecular structure of the nutrient matches with the chemical processes an animals body will use to derive sustenance from it. The main issue with an entirely artificial diet is that they are really way to complicated for our current level of understanding. We can Identify the main nutrients an organism needs but we can't really account for every biological process because we don't even know them all yet. Take the issue of Taurine in feline diets as someone already mentioned. We killed a lot of cats by not knowing. What else don't we know that is causing some unknown suffering to them.

Making some artificial nutrients and supplementing them into a creatures diet to offset cost or availability is one thing. Trying to re engineer the whole natural nutritional system of a creature to be opposite of what 600 Million years of evolution has designed it to be is crazy.

@kiramea Yes I'd want to see some proof that cats are ok on a substitute diet. I do believe with a Taurine supplement they could be ok. But then they wouldn't be vegan as a guess.

I've met folks who have done it and had excellent survival rates with Vegan cats so there has to be a way to do it that works and is fairly healthy (or they were cheating like crazy.).