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The beauty of being Atheist or Agnostic is that we do every act in our lives with straight sincerity. A religious person has to be bribed to do good, however a non-believer does good because it’s just the right thing to do.

Wise_self 3 Apr 8
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1

Where do people who consider themselves just ' secular ' fit in this discussion on why and how we do good?

2

Absolutely! Good statements!

0

i suppose hitler was quite sincere. how about rump & 90% of all the phony parasitic bastards in govt?

I don’t know what your point is sir, but Hitler was a Roman Catholic, and most politicians are theist.

Be careful how you choose a leader. Such a person should be able to gather only good people around them. Do we really need leaders? and why ?

@Wise_self ,
hitler was an atheist. many politicians are atheists even though they may use religion as a cover for some of their vilest actions.

Hitler certainly didn't hold back on his views. If Hitler was an atheist, you will have no problem coming up with a quotation from him espousing said atheism. Statements denouncing Christianity don't qualify because religionists are often known to become self-hating in response to the cognitive dissonance. Hitler's criticisms of Christianity were never public because Germany was almost entirely Christian and thus would not be receptive. Trump might well have had a low opinion of Christianity in private, but he clearly sought to present himself as Christian if only to pander to his followers.

You should realize that the assertion that Hitler was an atheist has been a vicious trope put out by Christians to assuage their own shame. Anti-Semitism was major principal of Christian values even though, like abortion, it had no basis in Christian scripture (Unlike the Quran). To the extent that Anti-Semitism became a foundational value of Christianity in Europe, the Holocaust was entirely in line with Christian values, and most Christian Germans were not unhappy to see the Jews killed. Hitler certainly had no scientific basis to kill the Jews, but undertook to concoct such evidence with pseudoscience. Again, for comparison, we have Trump's marshalling of right-wing propaganda to repel global warming concerns. Trump has no fondness for science or fact, except as it serves his pre-existing agenda. The same for Hitler.

0

This statement is way to stereotypical.

Angee Level 4 Apr 9, 2019

How?

@Wise_self not all religious people have to be bribed to do good. For example, most people on this site started out religious and while being religious, I am sure that many did good. Now, they are not religious and are still doing good. I teeter on being antitheist, but either way, I can still admit that there are some genuinely decent religious people.

4

This is too simplistic to be an accurate description of either group.

2

It is unfair to categorize all believers as only doing good due to their beliefs in gods.

How fair is it for religionists to say that atheists have no morals? Or to say that only their interpretation of their version of scripture is the true moral teaching?

@racocn8 trying to compare unfairness is silly. My statement is a stand alone opinion. I understand your questions, but as my mom used to say, two wrongs don’t make a right. ?

3

I tend to agree with you. I believe it was Christopher Hitchens who said "show me one good thing that cannot be done without religion. You can't. It's impossible."

3

Have been a bad person.....at the time thats the way I saw myself..not for wanting to be one, just too weak to know how not to be...due to being dyslexic, before such was reconized, I was a failure in school, some made fun, or only shied away, and I felt un-liked. And....I learned why I was such a failure and "bad" person....I was "born" a sinner....the way of my parents taught me that I could only be a "good" person if I believed, had faith, and submitted. Only then could I be a good person.....I just couldn't ever get there. ....and I really let it fuck up a good portion of my younger life. I happen to think that most all people want to be "good", fair, benevolent......but that you are sinning if you feel good about yourself. ...that you are not responsible for the good you do in your life. That credit belongs to a "controller"......what a junvenile way of thinking....anyway,....I'm rambling again....good luck with the rest of your life.

Happy you turned your life around. Peace to you and yours.

You are definitely set up in most religions to feel that way. Glad you are free!

Thanks for this shortened life story about the sad situations in your life. Well done for coming through a nice guy. I am sure that there are a lot more in your situation and thank "Goodness" [not God] that things are beginning to change.BTW Ramble On!

@Angee thanks for your reply...me too

3

Excellent observation! I have been helping an elderly couple from the islands work on their ford pickup. First, I installed a new alternator, and that was a challenge because the gentleman lost the bolts when he removed it (I wasn't in the picture yet)! I'm a packrat so I had some bolts that worked. Next, I installed a started. Took 5 hours to get 3 bolts out and back in. Whew! And it rained in the middle just to keep it interesting. Last night I put a new battery in it. When it started, the a.c. compressor is now making a terrible racket! I think that may be next! Anyway, the gentleman keeps trying to pay me but I'm only in it for the karma!

True character is doing good things for free.

1

Funny how that works isn't it ?

1

I never thought of it this way...

2

I Agree with you, although we are not perfect. But I agree when you say we act in some way not because of heaven but because it's the right thing to do.

4

I think most religious people think, for example, that murder is wrong, and don't need a holy book to tell them that, but I think they like the validation. In fact I think it gives many of them such a level of certainty it is difficult for them to see some issues from other points of view. Then there's the ones who interpret scriptures to support their bias and prejudice and that combination of prejudice and certainty is a scary one. However this is not to say all religious people are like this, for example by their sheer number the majority of those who support separation of church and state are theists. Many theists are supporters of issues supported by nontheists.

2

I just try to do what seems morally right and fair, because acting that way seems more emotionally comfortable for me and allows me to sleep well. So I guess I am rewarded in that way even if it never helps me get ahead in the competitive parts of life.

Same here, I just do things because it’s what I truly want to do. Don’t care for a reward or punishment.

1

I don't know that I agree with it, but that seems to be the argument for non-believers to feel morally and ethically superior to believers.

8

I agree with what you say but unfortunately not everything we do is good. Steven Weinberg said it well: “With or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil - that takes religion.”

gearl Level 8 Apr 9, 2019

I agree

3

What is good for one is not so for another.

1

Right according to what?

skado Level 9 Apr 9, 2019
3

It goes both ways. We don't blame the evil forces for doing bad things! It's only human nature

Yes but must we accept the bad things?

@Mcflewster never!

1

Yeah... not necessarily, but yeah.

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