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What is with this Atheist/Agnostic divide stuff lately. It sounds like Catholic/Protestant, Sunni/Shia, orthodox/reform.

Do atheists or agnostics really care what the other camp call themselves?

Lots of talk here about divisiveness caused by religion but this debate always smacks of my non-god is bigger than your non-god.

I may be wrong and if so please correct me but from an observer’s viewpoint looks like the same duck that went to the mosque, then the synagogue then the cathedral! I.e. if it walks like a duck and sounds like a duck...

Geoffrey51 8 Apr 29
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34 comments

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1

I'm agnostic because of what I know, or don't know in this case. I can't prove there is no doG.
I'm atheist because of what I believe, or don't believe in this case. I don't believe there is a doG. I’m also dyslexic and used to stay awake late at night wondering if there really was a doG. 🙂

I see plenty of dogs all the time and some of them run wild with no owners.

She exists; and she is beautiful

No disrespect is meant here towards DaveSchumacher. Its a serious question. Are you agnostic with regards to the god Vishnu?

@RobH86 Can you prove objectively 100 percent that Vishnu doesn't exist? I don't believe it, so thus I'm atheist.

@DaveSchumacher Sorry mate. Only read half of your previous post. I thought you were claiming to be agnostic. Didn't realise you identified as an theist. My apologies sir

3

I see everyone has pulled out their "don't label me" sticker.

That's awesome, you're all individuals and I support you and your statistically mediocre existence.

However, words have meaning. The atheist/agnostic divide is only one in those ignorant of what those terms mean.

Agnostics are atheists. Unless they are theists. Atheists are agnostic. Unless they are gnostic.

They are not two different positions on the same question. If you are agnostic, and don't worship a god, you're an atheist. I'm sorry, but we need to remove the stigma from the word.

Say it with me: I'm an atheist. It's OK. We don't really eat babies. Except on special occasions. Like Wednesdays.

  • What often isn't recognised is that there are Christians who approach their faith from an agnostic angle. They say they don't KNOW whether is a God but they also say that they choose to think that there is one.
  • It would be nice if more religious people - people of the Abrahamic religions - were able to concede that they don't KNOW and that their faith is a choice based a feeling or inclination which they regard as authentic but 'unprovable', that is undemonstrated.

@GunnarSivert Agnostic theists. Or a majority of the population probably

3

You know, I agree with you, and up until I joined a couple of years ago I thought agnostics and atheists were comrades together in the same struggle. Then, I joined this community. Quickly I got told by agnostics that theirs was the "more nuanced position"; that atheists were no different from theists because we both have a "faith based belief" in something, unlike the purity of the agnostic; that the atheist has to "prove" that no God exists; and that we atheists are influenced by modern radical terrible awful harmful "leaders" like Richard Dawkins who have been like the black death to non-believers....and so it went. Whoa! I thought we were on the same side here? Well, attacks like that have an impact. You step back. Do you ignore them, or do you deal with the points. Well, obviously the latter. So, that's what has happened. Frankly, I don't want to argue with agnostics, I want to challenge religions. But there it is.

I add I thought the agnostic/atheist squabble had actually toned down lately.

Though Dawkins has admited to being technically an Agnostic, so they are puttting up a straw-man if they say that.

@Fernapple I've not heard him say that.

@David1955 Yes I think it is in at least two of the books, probably The God Delusion for one, he admits to not being able to prove the none existence of god.

0

We choose our own labels. Haven't observed any animosity between then two here.

MizJ Level 8 Apr 29, 2019

I’ve observed frequent jibes between two ideas.

@Geoffrey51 People in ANY group will never agree with all the others 100% of the time. Four of us haven't noted it so I don't think it is at all pervasive here.

1

Labels are bullshit. Arguing about labels means arguing about bullshit. It's discouraging that non - believes can and do fall into the same traps and patterns as believers. If you know yourself and stay true to that, why the fuck does what others believe, or how they describe themselves, make any difference? SMH 🙄

To me, it makes a difference whether a Christian, for example, tells me that she/he is a Christian agnostic (or agnostic Christian) rather than a fully convinced Christian. I feel I have something in common with the former person; we share a common acknowledgement that a degree of doubt is acceptable and that uncertainty is recognised.

Yep

1

My problem is only when other people are trying to tell me about me, like atheists telling me that agnostics are really just atheists who aren't courageous enough to admit it. I don't really care who identifies as what as long as they are respectful. In my book, people who are trying to tell me about me when they don't know me is not respectful. Gets my goat.

0

I don't think that people are trying to divide any religious people, just simply pointing out that they may belong to one or other religions.

The religious do a very good job of division all by themselves.

1

I invented the Last Temple of the Great Black Muffin Mistress. There's a God but She wants you to leave Her alone. Humanity was Her mistake and She's half convinced to destroy them all. The ones who think they have a special relationship with Her and those who think She ought to reward them pisses Her off the most.

It's a farce.

The master plan is to quote the Muffinist bible (the Holy Book of Who Ha!) to bible belters to cite their holy book to me: make up scripture on the fly.

I am a believer. The last time I did some muffin, she was black 😉

1

Label me how you want. My words to explain will not stop you. Recently in Atheist Experience comments I was called out because someone thought what I first said was words of a believer. I clarified the issue but I'm sure it did not change the mind of the one calling me out for it. People believe nonsense. This is why we have an idiot for POTUS today.

Gladly few are as stupid as Trump and many will consider a reasonable criticism of their assumptions and contradictions.

3

I care not one jot for any of the labels. We are all individuals, and we as nonbelievers are not an organised grouping, so it’s hard to put one particular name on us. That is the way I like it, and it’s why I ticked all the epithets on my profile page....I would be happier to just be thought of as a freethinker and human.

5

I was blissfully unaware of a Atheist/Agnostic divide. Call me what you want, just don't call me late for supper. I am going to try not to get hung up on semantics.

1

Don't have a clue what you are speaking of.

0

That's bad ! I felt awful when i heard the news man! Whats wrong with people

Nader Level 6 Apr 29, 2019
4

I really don't care.
The only thing that bugs me is when someone tries to tell me what I am.
Actually, it doesn't so much "bug" me as it amuses me, and gives me an
opportunity to correct anyone's misconceptions.

3

This topic was actually a point of discussion in my Humanists and Freethinkers group. Some will call themselves atheist no matter what. The oldest member of the group takes the position that there is no difference between Religious and Atheist because they both claim a position that cannot be proven. He advocated using Agnostic because that infers that one has no knowledge or proof. He also pointed out that, at least here in the US, "atheist" is often met with hostility with people trying to convince them that a god exists. Given that there is no way to prove either way, we are agnostic.

0

Semantic meanings do change. Atheist started out meaning "without belief". Then the Christians campaigned against atheism claiming that it meant an active disbelief and rejection of (their) God. The new Christian definition shouted down the original definition and created the confusion noted in the original post. Hence, the new term non-theist which reclaims the original atheist meaning. Many other flavors of atheist have been advanced to define particular nuances, like apatheism and anti-theism.

4

Considering that athiests are going to hell & agnostics are only going to purgatory, I’d say there is plenty to argue about.

2

Where you aware there are only two people that cared enough to tell me the differance between atheist, and agnostic, .......and I've forgotten their names.......and, it confused them when I told them some days I was one, other days I was the other, and some days I couldn't figure which it was....so I praised odin...or is it Ra. And...I'm rambling again....I wantta talk about something else.

0

I have discussed this one in the past....one time too many. I am what I am and believe (or don't) in what I believe (or don't). What anyone calls me is out of my hands and doesn't matter to me.

0

It does get silly.

0

Humans/Beings.

2

i see that some of y'all have not noticed. i have. it saddens me. i think both labels embrace a range and the ranges sometimes overlap. i call myself an atheist but i don't diss agnostics for being undecided (not my concept, just what i see in the arguments) and i don't care to be dissed for being arrogant (not how i see myself). it is also irritating when people start telling us who we are and what we do or should believe, and that applies to each other as well as to believers. it is equally annoying when a believer tells me that atheism is a religion and when an agnostic tells me the same thing. my main concern isn't what other people believe. let 'em believe in the cheesecake deity if they want, or the tooth fairy. it starts to matter to me when religion gets legislated, executed and/or adjudicated, or forced upon us through other means. this is where atheists and agnostics are, or should be, the same: fight for separation of church and state (and separation of door-knockers, street-doom-criers, pamphleteers and such from ordinary people minding their own business).

g

3

"My non-god is bigger than your non-god" - I like that: if feel sometimes that atheists see agnostics as not sufficiently hairy-chested and tetesterone fuelled.

1

Low level members keep asking and reasoning that same old what's the difference question to get easy points with trite semantics... And we higher level members, like a bunch of dumbasses with the short term memory of goldfish, keep answering them, like we haven't already answered that question a bazillion times. It does get tedious at times.

1

People are people. I once had someone block me because I used the word soul in a non religious way.

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