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A serious topic that has to be intelligently understood. At a place in Bosnia - Medjugorie - there are many reputed physical healings that have occured over the past 30 years. I am submitting one such testimony for analysis and discussion. How does a agnostic or religious sceptic view this?

YuriKoszarycz 2 Oct 31
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5

Can I ask you not to post religious propaganda on this site of reason and intelligence. If we want to access this type of information it’s already available in mainstream media outlets. I’m sure just like Lourdes, Fatima, Knock and countless other Catholic pilgrimage sites around the world, the church profits greatly from the “Tourist Healing Industry” that draws millions to this site to heal by mind over matter. The fact that it appears to work for some is because it’s pseudoscience and certain people are able to convince themselves that they have been miraculously cured...in much the same way as the placebo effect works with medicine. Basically it’s a fraud, dishonest, and gives false hope to many who cannot be cured, something that will never be shown in any filming. Go and post this on FB or some other site...you will get so many more “likes” there than here.

People are TOO nice to this obvious troll who just joined for the sole purpose of selling delusions....I reported him TO ADMIN and his post should be removed SOON

5

It's an hour long. How about you summarise it, particularly the objective evidence supporting the supposed event.

4

Ohferpetessake............still taking up valuable air with this CRAP, are ya?

4

I'm sorry. I'm not even gonna watch it. I'm not that stupid.

4

Welcome to the site, and that's b***.

4

Welcome to the asylum. Enjoy your stay.

This atheist views it as absolute bullshit.

You have such a way with words, I concur.

3

Oh, it is Catholic and somebody got healed so it must be real. Now lets send that god to St. Jude where he can do lots of good, OR we can search for Elisha's bones which are capable of bringing people back to life.

Sorry. I did not care to watch the video.

3

Bullshit!

2

Sorry, but I haven't got 55 minutes to waste on fairy stories.

2

Alright, since I seem to be the only one serious ( or dumb ) enough to watch this, here is my synopsis and opinion for those that don't want to waste there time.

first 3 minutes: Introductory music, pretty scenes and such.

up to 13 minutes: explaining their situation, Colleen Willard has a brain tumor which is inoperable and several other diseases such as rickets which is only common in 3rd world countries.

up to 16:40 minutes, her proselytizing about surrendering to jesus, and failing to make sense of her pathetic life.

from there to 20 continuing with story, can't find medical answers at multiple clinics, everyone saying the same thing. Tumor is inoperable, at 17:30 she mentions finding resolve and joy in the fact that she won't live, followed closely by more proselytizing about unprovable things and her trying to rationalize her hopeless situation.

around 21 minutes she mentions wanting to go to Medjugorje, but she can't so a missionary gives her a trinket. She decides she wants to go anyways, but the don't have any money, litteraly nothing. Someone in the "Knights of Columbus" who she hasn't talked to in years pays for the trip.

24:50, They explain how they try to take advantage of a junior doctor to get a doctors note for the trip. The doctor ( doing her job ) won't sign. Followed by trying to get god to tell them to do what they want, because she was confused that it doesn't work like that.

27:30 misogyny, in the name of religion!!!!!

29 minutes: fuck, why am I still watching this? Get to the **F*****ing point

29:30 They get a magic phone call from their pastor. How did he know? I wonder... Then then their doctor suddenly has a change of heart. Magic. Pure magic. So they get on a plane. She doesn't remember much of the trip.

31:20 someone says (Yackoff? I think that's his name ) says they will take 3 people to heaven, purgatory and hell. definitely legit. No chance it's a ruse. Whatsoever.

33:45 ish. She professes she "came for everyone else and their prayers" to a priest walking through. Yeah, that's why she is there. The priest touches her head and suddenly her head is in pain. then they go to the narcissist I mean Yackoff who leads the English mass.

36 more proselytizing about her surrender to Jesus and Mary.

38 Suddenly she can feel her toes so decides she is healed and can walk.

38:40 speaking of subtle misogyny.

39:30 All of a sudden she can walk. They go for a walk but take the wheel chair anyways. By now she has been in a chair for 3 years. So she decides to go on a hike up "apparition hill" She doesn't care what people think of her all of a sudden. Weird.

42 they renew their wedding vows. Then he carries her down the mountain.

42:30 oh, by the way she was on morphine this whole time

43 minutes, they go back home. The doctors can't believe it.

44:20, Guess what? Even doctors believe that god is the healer. The bible says so.

45:15 something about her oxygen levels changing beyond normal levels, didn't catch it.

45:50 doctors are crying, no context.

46:30 There doctor is a friend of the pope's private physician. What are the odds.

47 despite the crying this is the first time they are talking about feelings. I'm really trusting this narration now.

48 She is still afraid of personal benefit, this has been a reoccurring theme the whole time.

49 the doctor tells her by invoking Lazarathus that she still has to die... creepy, or a hint of something greater?

51 Guess what? she says the "Greatest healing took place at home"

52:20 They let it slip they are traveling all over Europe. Wonder why.

until the end, music and various religious messages on a blank screen.


I will now spend the next 3-5 hours with listening to various literature on the driest topics I can find to wash my psyche of this horse manure. For you, @YuriKoszarycz, who I am tagging here even though you should see this anyways, I think I can explain everything, but first a little pop quiz.

1 Based soely on testimony from this video, was Colleen Willard healed of all ailments?
A ) yes B ) no C ) not enough information

2 How did the Knights of Columbus fund the trip?
A ) an alotment B ) theft C ) donation

3 What are the dangers associated with the use of morphine, especially if taken with other drugs or alcohol that makes morphine a controlled substance?
A ) No risks B ) indigestion, muscle atrophy, dependency C) Respiratory distress, hallucinations, dependency

4 Bob is angry at Jimmy, and punches him in the nose. Bob says he is sorry and gives Jimmy some tissues to stop the bleeding. Would you expect Jimmy to:
A ) declare that Bob has healed him B ) worship Bob for having healed him C ) Limit relations with Bob

5 I am the second coming of Jesus. Praise be to me. If you do not read and respond to this message, or do anything I don't like I will send you to hell. If you don't pay me $100 I will also send you to hell when you die, but if you do I will send your soul to heaven for all eternity. What will you do?
A ) nothing B ) pay $100 C ) pay $100 and make sure to tell everyone else to do so.

Thank you for saving me the trouble. You took a big hit for the team 🙂

@GreatNani Your welcome! But I still have to send you to hell if you don't pay $100 😉

@Happy_Killbot It may be worth it for saving me the aggravation and of course keeping me out of hell! 🙂

2

Bullshit

2

People are quite capable of convincing themselves of anything. I do not believe in any Gods, why would I suddenly believe in Mother Mary (Catholics dispute ALL these miracles, AND they already believe in the power of magic blood! )why would such an anecdotal story carry any weight beyond wish think?

2

Haven’t got time to watch the video but what I know of Medjugorie it’s another Catholic visionville snd so the hype and commercialism follows.

Yes. I am a cynic but that doesn’t take away some people’s positive experiences.

1

If there's a god, why would it only heal people at one location, instead of everywhere in the cosmos?

1

Oh... And;

  1. This is not a serious subject

and;

  1. There is no way to "intelligently understand" it except to call it the fakery it is!
1

How do I view this?. Do you remember Jim Jones? Remember The People's Temple? Remember Guyana?

Jones was famous for faking shit like this. And that's all it is... A steaming pile of shit!

Jim Jones was a typical illogical atheist.

@blahblah James Warren Jones (May 13, 1931 – November 18, 1978) was an American civil rights preacher, faith healer, and cult leader.
Yep. Sounds like an atheist.

@PondartIncbendog James Warren Jones (May 13, 1931 – November 18, 1978) was an American ..... She stated: "Jim used religion to try to get some people out of the opiate of religion"

An illogical atheist using religion to get people out of religion, then mass murder them.
In a 1976 phone conversation with John Maher, Jones alternately stated that he was an agnostic and an atheist. Marceline Jones admitted in a 1977 New York Times interview that Jones was trying to promote Marxism in the U.S. by mobilizing people through religion, citing Mao as his inspiration.

Jim Jones, a self admitted agnostic atheist marxists.

Now, with a little better scientific approach to research you find evidence that Jim Jones openly admits to being an atheist.

Yep, sounds like typical illogical atheist.

@blahblah Other religious leaders fake it too. The point is... Faith healing is total BS. The only "intelligent" way to understand it is to know that it is all fakery.

How's that?

@RiverRick When I was Christian, I was reared in full gospeI, spiritual supernatural gifts related teaching. I also studied biblical text on my own a lot as compared to many Christians that often only go a long with what a preacher says. This word "faith" would seem to be like a lot of words, more than one sense or meaning for the same word.

By biblical definition faith is knowledge - in particular - to have the knowledge of the old Jewish writtings or old testiment, a thing as in I am hoping to receive something someone promisedme, or a knowing. These things require intelligence capabilities.

Modern churchy "faith" is often like ... how can I describe ... like people would preach "uses you faith and believe and you shall recieve". Or so to say it like this, use your belief to squeeze your supernatural faith bubble and it will squeeze out the thing you are believing for. I don't know much about it working all that well, as to this so to say, "use your supernatural faith bubble by squeezing it with thoughts of belief". I just don't know of "faith" really working that way. Is there a lot of fakery, I would not doubt. Could there be something that is really happening on some limited occasions for some yet to be scientifically explained, I think it possible. The type of precognative future seeing dreams I have had that ended up giving me a glimpse of what I could only call supernatural, is what lead me away from christianity because I did further research to find that according to biblical text and other traditional writings it would point to Jesus as being Lucifer the devil if he really has existed. I no longer call myself Christian but because of my future seeing dreams that come together as an orchestrated plan with out me directly cause them to come about I know all too well from person experience that there is something to the term supernatural at least to say science has yet to discover what ever it is.

Science cannot say, 'it is scientifically concluded that all possible discoveries have been made and "supernatural " has not been discovered therefore supernatural cannot exist in any manner because science has certified that all possible discoveries has already been completely made and no supernatural found".

@blahblah Faith is NOT knowledge. Quite the opposite! Faith is a belief even when no proof or fact is present. It doesn't take brains or intelligence to have faith.

That said, that is not to say one cannot have a dream that ends up helping them in life somehow. (As you brought up) They call that a coincidence. Or, your brain was struggling with something that slopped over into REM sleep. These things are explainable.

But for you to suggest that I can go see a healer who can pray for me to have a better medical condition, or lay hands on me to heal me, is sheer lunacy.

@RiverRick as I say, words can have different usages and defination. Biblical text defines faith as knowledge etc. As I already explained, other usage and definitions of faith are as you defined faith.

If I can find previous typing so I can copy and paste my explination of my dreams seeing future ev6then I can send you the long details, but not sitting here thumb typing it all out right now.

@blahblah The bible defines a lot of things that are not true. Just because something is in the bible doesn't make it true. Any intelligent person will tell you that faith does NOT equal knowledge. It is the OPPOSITE.

I'll just chalk you up as a jesus troll.

@RiverRick if I am saying that according to what is written with out debating truth or fiction, the biblical text indicates that Jesus would be Lucifer the devil. Are you that illogical to not understand I am not trolling for Jesus, but rathe opposite. You being a Typical illogical atheist?

1

It is not true. There are no cures...

1

I view it with a great deal of skepticism. Have you heard of Lourdes and the well documented "miracles" that have occurred there. A little bit of research will show that the healing rate of pilgrims to Lourdes is identical to the rate of recovery for similar conditions among those who've never been to Lourdes. In fact, you are more likely to be killed in an accident en route to Lourdes than be miraculously healed once/if you get there.

JimG Level 8 Nov 1, 2019
0

Why do I have to be "cured" from a aliment that "god" gave me? Why do I have to ask?
That's like your doctor shooting you and you going to ask him to fix you.

0
0

Not serious not intelligent cannot be "understood"....this post is an example of xian trolling even if Yuri wants to become an Atheist...."healing" is idiopathic....relationship to place is always measured by facts AND faith is 100% bullshit delusion or selling taxi tickets to this worthless shrine

0

Over 100 years ago 2 delusional girls claimed to "see" their idea of an alleged vaginal virgin after giving birth to an alleged baby gawd in a dirty donkey stable.... no matter what allegations are made recently IT IS ALL 100% bullshit and your post here has me suspicious you are an xian troll not an Atheist new member

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