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Trump's defenders in the impeachment trial argued that we are too close to an election to remove a president from office. "The people should decide," they said. But how can we decide when a majority vote can be overruled by a minority that dominates key states in the electoral college? Trump lost the 2016 popular vote by over three million votes. He will probably lose the popular vote in 2020 as well, but he may still win the electoral college and the presidency. Trump's defenders in the Senate say they do not want to shove a decision down the country's throat. Yet they surely will abide by an electoral college win for the incumbent even if it is a popular landslide in favor of the Democratic candidate. A foul stink of hypocrisy is in the air, but we should not be surprised. The Senate itself is an artifact of the same flawed thinking that created the electoral college. In fact, the error of assigning two senators to each state, no matter how small its population, is arguably more egregious than the creation of the electoral college. If the number of senators representing  sparsely populated states better reflected the sizes of their populations, we would surely be excising a festering, pus-filled carbuncle from the body politic this week. Instead, we will have to endure another year (note the irrational optimism) of slander, prevarication, and stunning ignorance.

Flyingsaucesir 8 Feb 3
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2

It doesn't matter if it's an election year or not. The impeachment was mainly to do with manipulating another nation to influence the election. The Republicans in the Senate are abdicating their constitutional responsibility in the hopes that Trump won't be reelected, and at the same time they won't pay the price inside their party for finding him guilty of the crimes he's committed.

If they were honest with themselves, Republicans know that, were they to substitute the name "Obama", "Clinton", "Warren", "Biden", "Sanders", pick a Democrat, in place of "Trump", doing the exact same deeds, they would be howling for their heads. The trouble is finding a Republican who is honest with themselves.

1

The founding fathers created the electoral college to prevent cities with large populations from dominating the government. Don’t count on the looney democraps winning another popular vote majority especially since they seem to have drifted sharply to the left.

@creative51 Trump will be re-elected so you might as well get ready for your violent revolution.

35% of voters will will support Trump no matter what. But 45% will vote for ANYONE BUT Trump. It's going to come down to the swing voters, and no one knows which way it's going to go. That's why we have to have an election.

@Flyingsaucesir According to the polls Hillary was supposed to be president so I don’t believe your poll on who will support Trump. Here in Oklahoma Trump carried all 77 counties and in my hometown he carried 87% of the vote.

"Democrats". It's spelled "Democrats". And thank you for providing an example of the utter lack of civility on your side, in that you can't even show enough respect to spell the opposing party's name.
Even Reagan, as horrible an example as he was, as terrible the trend his administration set for the next 40 years of trickle-down economics, didn't belittle his opponents that way.
Also, according to the popular vote, Hillary is President as well. More people voted for her, in spite of Trump's continued denial and insistence that it was all voter fraud- allegations that have been disproved time and again. It's a fluke of the Electoral College that put Trump in office, and it's doubtful that it will be repeated in our lifetimes.

@Trajan61
We shall see. Stay tuned. After three years we know Trump a lot better now. He tried very hard to take health insurance away from millions of Americans, and had NO plan to replace the Affordable Care Act. He gave a big tax cut to the richest 1% and did jack shit for the common man. Our infrastructure is in worse shape than when he promised to fix it. He fucked up the only deal that had Iran halting their nuclear program and allowing international inspectors to verify compliance. He created a huge mess by separating kids from their families; they still don't know where some of them are. He continues to deny/ignore climate science while the fires rage and the floodwaters rise. And he illegally held up funds meant to aide an ally in a hot war with one of our adversaries in order to extort a personal favor. Oh yeah. We have a much better picture of who he is now.

@Flyingsaucesir I’m not in the top 1% and I appreciated the tax cut. The Iran deal was stupid as it only delayed the Iranians getting nukes and gave money to a very radical and hostile Islamic Theocracy which has been stirring up trouble for years. There’s nothing wrong with clean energy but it’s going to take years to get there as solar and wind just can’t compete with clean burning and cheap natural gas. What Joe and Hunter Biden did in the Ukraine was definitely corrupt so why aren’t they being investigated instead of spending millions trying to get rid of Trump just because the democraps can’t stand the fact that they lost the election in 2016.

@Paul4747 US elections are not determined by popular vote but rather the electoral college thankfully as we would have had Al Gore and Crooked Hillary without it. Trump will be re-elected in 2020 so you might as well get used to him.

@Trajan61
Obviously you have your mind made up. Where do you get your information? Fox News?

@Flyingsaucesir I very seldom watch Fox News. Just common sense should dictate that Trump is by far the better canadate and will win by a landslide in 2020.

@Trajan61 The candidate who has told over 16,000 documented lies since taking office is "by far the better candidate" in your book... and you seem to think Hillary Clinton is corrupt. Somehow. Probably (judging by your use of the same nickname) because Trump said so. The same guy who, as aforementioned, has told over 16,000 documented lies since taking office.

I suppose, if a slim majority of Americans have the same cognitive dissonance as you, or if the same freak of electoral college math works again, he just might win- but it won't be any landslide. Of course, he'll claim it was, despite the facts, but that's just Trump.

Your boy is a liar. It's proven. He lies more than anyone. He lies about his lies. He's unrepentant about his lies. It's proven by multiple sources, thousands of times, ever since he became a public figure, long before he started running for president. If you're okay with that, then I question whether you yourself recognize truth.

@Paul4747 Trump has done more good in 3 years than the looney idiot Obama did in 8. Hell he has undone a lot of the crazy crap done by Obama.

@Trajan61
Let's just focus on one issue for a minute. Are you aware that the 2010s decade was the hottest on record? And the second hottest decade was the 2000s? And the third hottest was the 1990s? And the fourth hottest was the 1980s? And the fifth hottest was the 1970s? Do you see the pattern? Tell me, what do you make of all these record-breaking fires, floods, heat waves, droughts, sea level rise, and melting ice taking place around the world? You think it's just a hoax perpetrated by the liberal media, as the Donald claims? You think we should invest in more coal-fired power plants, set aside limits on CO2 emissions, as he advocates? He also thinks we should lower the standards for automobile tailpipe emissions. Do you agree with that?

@Flyingsaucesir Coal can’t compete with cheap natural gas which is cleaner burning. There’s nothing wrong with being green but it’s going to take quite a while to get there. We don’t have to wreck the economy to do it. When the environmentalists start blaming cows for global warming they are getting extreme. Hell AOC has said we only have 10 years so we might as well enjoy the time we have left. 🤪🤣😂

@Trajan61
Just keep doing business as usual so you can have your fun, leave younger and future generations a blasted planet? What a childish, selfish attitude. Truly pathetic. Shame on you.

@Flyingsaucesir Do you really believe that bullcrap from AOC??

@Trajan61
I get my information about science from scientists.

@Flyingsaucesir So do I.

@Trajan61
It does not sound like it.

@Trajan61 the "godfather" was around for a long while too.

@Trajan61 you mean undoing Healthcare as promised? Huh?
you mean recognising the millions that built your country? huh?
Please do give some examples of the undoing of Obama's crap?
As far as I am concerned blorange can kiss the ground Obama has walked on and blorange still won't possess that kind of class. Boooooo

@Trajan61 "Here in Oklahoma"? You've explained yourself. I rest my case.

@TimeOutForMe Sounds like you don’t think much of Oklahoma. I think it’s one of the best states in the US and California and New York are the worst. Seeing as your from South Africa where the blacks are killing white farmers and taking their land it seems you have plenty to worry about in your own country so why worry about mine.

@Trajan61 "blacks are killing white farmers and taking their land", is a gross exaggeration on the few that were killed. They approached Blorange with lies for assistance to keep their stolen goods or legally be advised how they can get more using guns and force, like they did in the beginning!

@TimeOutForMe I’ve known a South African who worked here and that’s not what he said. Also there’s plenty of other sources that indicate South Africa is going the way if Zimbabwe. If you consider that to be good you must be a ultra left wing communist type.

@Trajan61 you have no idea what you're talking about. You must've been speaking to a rightwinger running away from his crimes, chewing on his own vomit, looking for pity from "fellow mates".
I did not say this country is perfect.

@TimeOutForMe They left wing idiots are the ones who seem to have a lot more trouble following laws.

@Trajan61 look David, you're TOO FAR RIGHT to be worried about leftwingers. Perhaps you have a complex?

@TimeOutForMe You definitely seem to have a complex! 🤪🤣😂

@Trajan61 definitely not me! Rightwingers (YOU) have a need to continously protect what doesn't really belong to you and will never show empathy to the rest of mankind.

3

I really do understand how people can become radicalized.
Didn't really grasp the concept before, but I get it now.
I'm not saying that I am, but I definitely get how it happens.

You are definitely radicalized!

@Trajan61 You're hilarious. And pathetic.

4

Another thought, is that in the USA the concept that the POTUS is just another citizen and thus is not and cannot be above anyone else or the law. What appears to have happened is the Republican Senators deciding that the POTUS is an elected dictator who is beyond the law.

The impeachment in the house was very political and biased so what in the hell are you talking about.

@Trajan61 The citizens of the United States are intended to be equals. The USA votes for its leaders, once their term is finsihed, they return to being citizens.
Through the Republican Senators not ahearing to their oath to be unbiased, they voted not to allow evidence to be allowed, and thus produced America's first elected tyrant.
As youy have said, the impeachment was highly political.
Being now a tyrant, Trump has demonstrated he is above the law.

@Sofabeast Your judgement seems to be severely clouded by listening to CNN (communist news network) and MSNBC.

@Trajan61 and your judgment is clouded by listening to FOX NEWS? Murdoch carrying a torch for Blorange? ...has to be!
Step outside of the USA and view the inside from the outside. You'll be able to see what millions of us see and hear. ...when blorange and Co are whining and sounding like they need gold stars on school reports, when their names really ought to be in a black book not to be removed 🤣 but true!

@Sofabeast he gave himself a slot at dictatorship.
He's a cheat and he's vengeful. People that know him and those that expose him.

3

Surely the decision to have a trial without evidence and a jury who refuse to be unbiased is unconstitutional.

Well there was evidence, just no NEW evidence. And what there was apparently convinced many Republican senators that Trump did just what the House Managers alleged. But for the Republicans, held hostage by their fear of Trump's base, terrified of losing their next re-election bid to a primary challenger, attempting to use American treasure extort a political favor from a foreign country is no high crime or misdemeanor. It is merely "inappropriate." So said Sen. Lamar Alexander on Meet The Press on Sunday. And so they shirk their responsibility and punt the ball down field to the national electorate. Meanwhile, at the state level there is an full court press on the part of Republicans to disenfranchise as many potential Democratic voters as possible. If we want to hold onto this democracy, Democratic voters had better turn out in droves in November.

@Flyingsaucesir Democrat voters seem to prefer a socialist dictatorship with their looney ideas about everything being free, not to mention their radical gun control proposals. Hell gun seizures are the first step to dictatorship.

@Flyingsaucesir I'm not a citizen of your country but we watch snippets of the impeachment trial in South Africa. The senators are Trump's pawns on a chess board. He'll knock you off anytime if you (misbehave) speak against his policies.
Adam Schiff put forth a passionate and powerful speech for the truth and doesn't pull punches. ...but the greedy Republican Senators have proved their loyalty for a conman regardless of the country's and the people's best interests. They project arrogance, call the truth a lie and don't care that the world is watching. ...the very perpetrators, the same spiteful, shameful hooliganism DNA, who slaughtered and deprived the native Americans, the African Americans and now responsible for holding children in cages, want it all for themselves, yet again!

@Trajan61
I think you misunderstand the progressive liberal platform. Everything is not "free." Higher taxes on the rich pay for things like college tuitions, medical research, and infrastructure. The savings gained by removing the profit to insurance companies pays for medical care and prescription drugs. And there are also big savings resulting from doing healthcare proactively, instead of reactively (where people wait until they are really sick before seeing a doctor and wind up in an emergency room, THE most expensive care there is). And transitioning off fossil fuels has been shown to yield big savings too, because green technologies are not only cheaper and more efficient, but they also don't pollute the environment with substances that cause global warming and make people sick. And building the smart grid and green power systems will create millions of jobs. And all of this will happen in a system that is not that much different than the one we have now. It would NOT be a Soviet-style command economy, but a better-regulated, socially conscious form of capitalism.

@Trajan61 Where is your evidence for your statement about guns and dictatorship? Currently the USA has got an Imerial presidency, where Trump carries out whatever he wishes, when he wishes.
Next, what is wrong with socialism?
Look at Canada, Australia, New Zealand the 27 countries of the EU, Isreal, Turkey, Japan, India and yes, the UK (for the moment) All socialist countries by American standards, let alone the Russian Federation an ex Soviet Republics.
Almost all of these 'socialist' countries have far more greater freedoms and democracy than the USA.
As far as social reforms go to catch up, America is woefully far behind the rest of us.
Make America great, catch up with the rest of us! Oh and adopt the metric system while you're at it.

@Sofabeast You are so full of crap. Here in the US you have a right to carry a firearm for self defense. In England only the criminals have firearms so you are at their mercy.

@Trajan61 Every single time you post, you show yourself to be beyond reason, and a toady conservative whackjob.

@KKGator You seem to be a totally Liberal left wing whack job yourself. 🤪🤣😂

@Trajan61 You keep trying to label me a liberal and a "leftie", but I'm not. Never have been.
You, on the other hand, have announced you're a conservative, more than once.
Move along.

@KKGator You support the democraps over Trump and anybody who does that must be left wing.

@Trajan61 Again with the wrong assumptions. It's far more than just liberals and democrats who hate that scumbag con man.
I've loathed that lying criminal for over 40 years, and I've never been a democrat.
Stop making assumptions.

@Sofabeast: It’s useless to ask Trajan for evidence for anything, His GOP religion has blinded him.
You correctly say the nations you named have more democracy than America. When the colonies (with help from France) defeated England’s King George III and his aristocracy, the 1787 Convention made the smallest change possible, to an oligarchy with a ruling class of unregulated capitalists.
The only democracy in America is in the 18 states whose voters have the direct initiative, referendum and recall (DIR&R). Most of these states are in the western US. In Arizona’s case, its statehood committee saw the corruption in the eastern states and, to prevent it, wisely added the DIR&R to their draft constitution.

@yvilletom Thank you for the information about DIR & R. Tht was something I didn't know. American politics was an interesting subject at college last year. I passed with maximum marks! No doubt it will come up again in the end of year exams.

@yvilletom, @Trajan61 I have six guns, not one for self defence, I have friends in England who also many legally held guns, also not for defence and none of us are criminals. We are a civilised country and the need to defend ourselves on a minute by minute basis is simply not there. So alas, your argument fails dismally yet again. I have noticed you seem to formulate opinions based entirely on guessing wrongly and lacking viable confirmable evidence. I suggest that you should endevour to change your investigative methodology. Try reading reliable source material first, then compare and contrast them with an internal dialogue, then formulate a hypothesis where you can test its viability scientifically and confirm it through peer review.

@Sofabeast I agree with you.
That's not a govt. It's the mafia. I wish they can let go of all our minerals and all else after he called us (South Africa included) a shit hole. More than 20% of their growth came from Africa in the last 20 year's. Plenty Americans living here. They don't wish to go back.
It's mostly the right wing people (and criminals) that have guns here. Everyone else don't need it. The most deaths of innocent people in the USA was committed by deranged gun fanatics. A lot of them think USA is planet earth. They need to step out of shit sometimes and view the planet.

@Trajan61 socialist - everything being free?
Don't compare movements that care about humanity with your thieving forefathers that had to kill to occupy and have it for FREE.

@yvilletom You are so full of crap. It’s very obvious that you are a left wing extremist.

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