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Does anyone else have a problem with the Pledge of Allegiance?

Why do I have to Pledge Allegiance. Doesn't that defeat the purpose of Democracy? Currently, this country embarrasses the hell out of me.

I teach 5th grade. I looped with my class from 4th grade. Last year when the Black Lives Matter movement was in the news more prominently, and the NFL kneeling controversy was big news, a few of my students came to me to have a courageous conversation. They explained that as young, black men, they would like to abstain from reciting the Pledge during daily announcements. Understanding their feelings (and agreeing), and respecting their right to free speech, I said sure, as long as they were respectful, and did nothing else during that time (respecting those choosing to pledge).

Other kids asked why they didn't have to stand, and I allowed the boys to explain. We researched the first amendment and had many discussions. Overtime, many other students decided to sit, expressing that they too felt disenfranchised. Several students are of Mexican heritage, most of the girls, all of my African American boys, and several Caucasian boys all chose to sit the Pledge out. No one says anything. I simply allow it, provided they are respectful of those choosing to recite the Pledge.

Long story short. I was out sick 2 days this week. My substitute complained to the office and I was reprimanded for not forcing my class to stand and say the Pledge. I'm considering calling the ACLU.

If Jehovah's Witnesses can't be forced under the 2nd amendment, why can't the 1st amendment protect everyone else?

Plus, the whole "under god" part bothers me. It violates separation of Church and State. Also, it wasn't part of the Pledge until 1954 when our government thought adding the phrase would differentiate us from communists (who weren't necessarily godless by the way--proof Congress had no logic back then either).

Sigh. Thoughts?

MarvelAnn 8 Mar 29
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35 comments

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1

Imagine if the Pledge said "One nation under Allah..."

5

I totally understand your frustration, and couldn't agree more. Our country currently has it's priorities completely skewed and twisted ... (sigh)

5

Call FFRF-Freedom From Religion Foundation and ask them for help as well as ACLU. Good Luck-on yours and those abstaining.

0

Fuck yes of course it does. im from Egland and wouldnt stand for my so called national anthem either. I am not free anymore than americans or anyone but the choices I do have I like to choose myself.

0

I don't recite it. I don't stand for it, or the anthem.
I don't like having my "patriotism" dictated.
Congress added the "under god" part in 1954, to show that we were better than
the "godless communists". They can shove that bs.
I'm godless, and still an American. There isn't anything that anyone can do or say that will
ever change that.
Call the FFRF. They love this stuff!

5

The original pledge didn’t have under god in it. Was added under McCarthyism

I was in 4th grade when it was added, 1954 I think.

4

I haven't recited the pledge or stood for the national anthem since I was in grade school, I understood even then that this country had abandoned the ideals set forth in The Constitution and The Declaration of Independence, and yes my parents were always getting calls from my school

2

I think contacting the ACLU would be a good idea, but be prepared for possible backlash from the school and possibly your community. Don't let that stop you, though. It is a matter of freedom vs. indoctrination. You're on the right side of this, IMHO.

How would one "force" someone who didn't want to stand and speak to do so anyway?

(When I choose to recite the Pledge I do not include the phrase "under God." Unfortunately, I'm pretty much forced to use currency, although I avoid it when possible. I'm not sure what I would do if I was ever asked to place my hand on The Bible to take an oath, such as being a witness in court.)

3

I believe I would call the ACLU. I has been up held by the Supreme Court that kids don’t have to stand for the pledge. I have already had to go to school and raise hell with them about the teacher yelling at my step daughter because she didn’t stand for the pledge. The principal and the teacher both apologized to her.

5

OMG. I am with you. Educate them and inform them. I teach 4th grade. If they don't ask I don't tell. But I sure as hell would if asked. You are a MARVELOUS teacher. Continue doing what you do and YES get the ACLU involved if it comes to that. More power to you!

Could not have said it better myself. My thoughts exactly!

2

I don't mind that its an option, but I never went 4 it being mandatory. Even when I was in grade school, when I decided 2 stop doing it, they were upset, and they tried 2 make me do it, but honestly they can't. They don't have the ability 2 make words come out of my mouth. At least not easily at their disposal. They tried 4 a while and eventually they gave up.

Byrd Level 7 Mar 29, 2018
3

It's still difficult for me to beleive that we have states that MAKE the kids recite the pledge every day. Forced patriotism makes me think of all of the bullshit going on in China. If I didn't love my country, I wouldn't be here. However, you can love something and still know for a fact that it needs to be improved upon.

0
1

I don't have anything to add to the good advice others have suggested here, but I admire your thoughtfulness and fortitude. Those young people need teachers who will listen to them and respect their opinions.

0

Sheesh! I hope the ACLU helps you!

0

I believe it should be a choice, and not thrust upon those too young to fully understand what it means to swear fealty for life to something. Just as with religion people should not be indoctrinated in from birth, bit when they are old enough to make that choice

I do not pledge allegiance to anyone or anything, personally.

0

Take "under God" out and it's still indoctrination.

I am not against indoctrination as long as it is voluntary indoctrination into something good.

@Reignmond Children below the age of consent cannot be considered voluntary

3

As I have watched the US diverge from its ideals, I have come to realize that my "allegiance" is the idea if a free, open, and just society; not to a country.

3

Saying the pledge, particularly making it compulsory for children to say it in school, does nothing more than promote nationalism, an inherently unhealthy mindset. It instantly creates a mentality of "us versus them," or "we're better," or "we are the chosen." In children, it conditions them, moving them into this way of thinking with each repetition. Forget "under god." I say get rid of the whole thing.

0

Just for completeness, here is the original (with some editory comments from Wiki):

It was originally published in The Youth's Companion on September 8, 1892. Bellamy had hoped that the pledge would be used by citizens in any country. In its original form it read: "I pledge allegiance to my Flag and the Republic for which it stands, one nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."

This from:

[ushistory.org]

I have no real issue with this, the original, version.

3

First, it is unconstitutional to force anyone to make the pledge of allegiance. It has been so since 1943. As far as I know, we here in the US and ironically North Korea are the only ones in the world who carry it to such extremes. Other countries where a pledge is common, but not overbearing are:

Mexico
Philippines
India
China
Singapore
Turkey

Countries that don’t:

All European countries.
Australia, Canada, and New Zealand.

Most countries around the world have rituals related to their flags and their national anthems that are innocuous in nature.

We have history to look at and should learn one major lesson from it: Nationalism is the primordial swill from which emerges tyrants, despots, and dictators.

3

My allegiance is to the constitution. Not to any symbol. Nor piece of ground.

0

I'm a school librarian, and I spend the first 20 minutes of every school day in an elementary classroom for academic intervention (which is really just some worksheets they call "morning work.) This year, I'm in a third grade classroom. I'm in there during the pledge which is lead by some high school students on the morning announcements which are played on the screen.

I stand and say the pledge, but I don't say "under god." Sometimes, I see a kid trying to take a peek at me because I think someone has realized that I don't say it and has spread the word, and they want to check for themselves. So, just to be tricky, I sometimes make a light cough or scratch my nose (obscuring my mouth), or sometimes I mutter "and a guy" or jibberish to disguise the fact that I'm not saying "under god." I hate that I have to do this, but I don't want any hassle or controversy, and I also don't want to go against my own principles.

But beyond just the "under god" part, I DO have a problem with the pledge in general. No kid recites the pledge with reverence and a deep understanding of what he's doing. It's just thing that they have to do. It ends up being meaningless. I love my country, and that love comes from an actual understanding of our history, some of which has been great, and some of which has been awful. A rote recitation of allegiance, to me, actually CHEAPENS that love of country.

I think that what you did with your students did far more to connect them to our country's history and values than any recitation could. Bravo to you.

@TampaHeathen I'm new to teaching, it's my second career. I was actually surprised to learn that it's NY state law! Here's what it says:

It shall be the duty of the commissioner to prepare, for the use of the public schools of the state, a program providing for a salute to the flag and a daily pledge of allegiance to the flag, and instruction in its correct use and display which shall include, as a minimum, specific instruction regarding respect for the flag of the United States of America, its display and use as provided by federal statute and regulation and such other patriotic exercises as may be deemed by him to be expedient, under such regulations and instructions as may best meet the varied requirements of the different grades in such schools.  However, such instruction shall include, as a minimum, the provisions of sections one hundred seventy through one hundred seventy-seven of title thirty-six of the United States Code .

@TampaHeathen I'm glad you said that, because that's how I read it too. In my school, they tell us that it is required, but the way I read it, it seems a little vague. I see that it could be interpreted that the opportunity has to be provided, and that kids need to learn about what it is and how to do it. I'm not sure that all classrooms do it, I've only been in a few of them at pledge time. They also follow up the pledge with a school pledge... it talks about being nice and respectful to each other. Doesn't stop kids from being jerks, though.

0

I was raised a Jehovah's Witness myself and now that I'm out I feel personally it's wrong to compel anyone to stand for the pledge or the anthem.
Regardless of the reason...Forced patriotism isn't patriotism..Its facisim plain and simple...

I'm also a vet..Just got out in August and I fully support a person's choice to stand or not to stand and when people say it's insulting to our military..No I feel it's insulting to try and force people to take these steps because you're supposed to have the right to do so because of the military... Also if a person sits or takes a knee or whatever as a form of protest..Well hey that's cool too! It's a peaceful protest and to me that's just awesome!

0

My opinion has changed with the times, I think you handled it perfectly. When my thinking was different I was not in tune with the oppressed, know that I am I stand with them, or sit... I have much more of a world view now than I did in 1976 when I was 13 and waving a flag in New York Harbor for the bicentennial. Love this country and it’s Flag but until it waves equally for every American it will never feel like it did in 76... That said, I refuse to allow Republicans and the GOP hijack our symbols, half mast until conditions improve! I’m a New Yorker who believed in the great melting pot... I want us to be the country the Statue of Liberty stands for... if we don’t fix things soon I’ll have to start Looking towards Brooklyn when I’m on the Staten Island ferry.

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