@Bobby9

We are not at war or under threat of attack.

No wall is better than wall because wall is enormously expensive and comes with many unintended consequences while no wall does not cause problems.

@Bobby9

It obstructs migrating animals who are unable to fly or tunnel under. Land must be taken from people who don't want to lose it. And money is diverted from elsewhere to pay for it.

I agree that people need to be prevented from entering without permission. I believe a wall is not an effective way to go about stopping them.

@Bobby9

[biologicaldiversity.org]

I'd say it only slows them slightly. When people are choosing to deal with the wall rather than go around the wall, it is an ineffective barrier. They are cutting holes in the wall large enough to drive vehicles through. They are welding rebar horizontally to the vertical slats to create permanent ladders. It is difficult to notice these things because there is so much wall to observe and the rebar blends in with the material that the wall is made of. When they cut holes, they put the removable piece back in place after passing through and it is very difficult to detect that a holes has been cut.

Sure, it slows them down slightly but it is certainly not worth the cost, the damage to the environment, and the land seizure.

@Bobby9

Well that's true. I don't know for sure that it isn't worth while because I don't know how much it actually is assisting border patrol. On that same page, you don't know that it is worth while because it's guess work for you as well.

So considering the enormous cost and the harm that it causes, as well as the demonstrated lack of effectiveness that we have seen so far, I think it's safe to say that, probably, the wall is a bad investment.

@Bobby9

I don't know for sure that it's lack of effectiveness definitely makes it not worth while.

In the original comment that started this discussion, I demonstrated that it does lack effectiveness. When people are freely choosing to deal with the barrier rather going around the incomplete barrier, that is not an effective barrier.

So, I understand that the fence is, probably, an ineffective waste, but I am acknowledging that there is a small chance that I could be wrong about that.

It is ineffective, but I can't totally 100% say for sure that it is so ineffective that it isn't worth it.

In my opinion, the cost, the damage to the environment, and the wasted resources make it a bad plan. Even if it was proving to be very effective at it's intended purpose, I don't believe all that expense is worth it just to keep out some people who don't belong.

@Bobby9

All in all your just another brick in the wall

@Bobby9

I know.

The conversation isn't going anywhere so I decided to be goofy and type some pink Floyd lyrics.

@Bobby9
"I'd say it only slows them slightly. "
"Well that's true. I don't know for sure that it isn't worth while because I don't know how much it actually is assisting border patrol. "
I've admitted that walls slow people down and help stop them. Point is, not enough to justify the expending the resources to build it.

Don't have backup? When did I say that?