After just reading another post, I feel compelled to ask, why do we have to still be embedded within this context of right or wrong? It makes as much sense as trying to work out good and evil. What about we toss those concepts completely because they come from within the religious framework and are instrumental in assigning the idea of sin.
How about we consider a completely different but simpler and more practical ethical concept: What works and what doesn't work. Clearly then, you can see that anything which causes long term pain and suffering and perpetuates down the generations, like child abuse, doesn't bloody work. Things like gender orientation become pretty neutral or can be said to work because they promote more love and peace within individuals without impacting on the community within this scale. You can also see that it is a scale, not a dichotomy. Some things work a bit better than others but that doesn't mean they don't work.
I've been using this evaluation of works/doesn't work for many years now and it has stood me in good stead. It does mean I often see things differently to others. So if we really want to throw off the yoke of religion what about we toss out their useless dichotomous value systems as well.
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Feel free to reply to any comment by clicking the "Reply" button.I disagree.. Child molestors think "this works." But that's clearly wrong... Murderers also think "this will work. " but that's clearly wrong as well... What's works for one doesn't work for all..
Cutiebeauty
Level 9
Apr 20, 2020
1
@altschmerz yes, exactly.. What's right and wrong does that..
I addressed this in the original post, in that child abuse doesn't work because of the oain etc. Criminals such as this won't work to any value system regardless. Their only value system is, do I want it, so they're outside of whatever sytem you consider. Part of my point is that what works for one doesn't work for all so any universal right wrong won't work. The do as you would be done by is great and could easily work along side this, but that falls down if you're talking about a masochist. It is a utilitarian philosophy but I meant it more as a personal value system and all personal value systems will be governed by the willingness of the individual to consider others. This is a bit of a confused reponse cutie, sorry. I use this but as you imply, that must sit upon personal values which are functional for the community. Perhaps if we consider this in conjunction with egalitarian values?
@Cyklone I quote myself... Sheesh. Am I missing something?
"yes, exactly.. What's right and wrong does that.."
It is a mistake to assume religion deals in right and wrong, or good and evil or even morality and ethics, they do not.
Religion deals in Sin and Virtue, based solely on what their particular cult deems to be the preference of that particular deity at that particular time.
This is extremely useful, especially at times of war, or social rebellion.
For example if you want your flock to be in fear and crippled by guilt you find something completely natural and harmless that almost everyone does everyday and declare it a sin in the eyes of god.
This immediately has a number of effects
- It sets up an unpaid virtue police of people so determined to prove they are not sinning they will report those who they think (or want to think) are.
- the guilt ridden will confess and leave themselves open to black mail if they do not atone
- People will pay for forgiveness.
- An appropriate punishment can be set, so instilling fear and obedience.
- A virtuous hierarchy can seize power on deserved merit.
- Natural disasters can be blamed on the sinners.
This why most new religions immediately have a list of prohibitions for perfectly natural thing such as tea, coffee, pork, beef, homosexuality, masturbation, premarital sex, dancing or even chocolate.
Conversely utterly horrendous things can be made to be virtuous and pleasing to god such as aversion therapy, forced purchase of religious items such as e-meters, mass suicide, prosperity gospels, exploitation, hating people of another religious persuasion, invasions of promised lands and the genocide or enslavement of the people already living there and extermination camps.
Religion has nothing to do with good and evil, right and wrong and morality in the pragmatic or ethical sense at all, as I said it is all about subjective Sin and Virtue.
LenHazell53
Level 9
Apr 20, 2020
0
As a life-long pragmatist, I almost never waste time thinking about right/wrong, I think about the Golden Rule & the shortest distance between 2 points.
AnneWimsey
Level 9
Apr 20, 2020
2
@ToolGuy happy now? I wish I could eliminate Spellcheck, it delights in making me look illiterate!
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