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I am a war baby. That means I was born during WW2. That also means that I can remember when city streets were safe and the U.S. Dollar bill had real value.
I am also a Military veteran.
These things at least partly explain why I hold the political/societal views that I do.

I know that the majority of the people here hold leftist/progressive views. This is one of the reasons I am on this site. I genuinely appreciate reading their arguments when they choose to use rational discourse.

Some of my respondents seem to bear personal animus toward me despite never having met me. I find this strange.

Attacks on character and the use of ad-hominems cannot enlighten or persuade.
I suppose those type comments are just posturing anyway. so I ignore them.

dumasarok 7 June 4
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5 comments

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3

Ad hominem are perfectly valid arguments. They are my go to.

1

I feel your joy.

I’m a late Vietnam era baby. Dad was a Marine with three tours in Vietnam, I was a Marine in the lands of Islam, and also hold views based on my experiences.

I get a real kick out of reading the comments on here, but tend to be blocked because (I personally believe) liberals do not appreciate decent from their line of belief. There is no debate. They are correct and everything and everyone else must be silenced. I do believe that none of them have ever been nose to nose with an E-5.

The comical part is that I have yet to see anyone explain their stance beyond personal feelings. And that’s okay… but it’s fun.

And thank you for your service, Sir!!!!

4

Well, as an historian (and a veteran) who grew up in the 70s and reached adulthood in the 80s, let me share some rational historical data with you and see what you think.

Inflation: Inflation is a fact of economics. $100 in 1870 is roughly $2000 now in purchasing power. "When the dollar had real value" is objectively meaningless, since people also were not paid $5, $10, or $20 a hour. They may have been paid that much a week or a month. However, due to the wage-price spiral, when employees get a raise, their employers tend to raise prices to cover the difference, thus meaning the employees ask for another slightly larger raise since they want to get ahead, whereas the employer wants to increase profit and thus raises prices slightly more than the raise they just gave. Without making moral judgments on either side, it's a clear fact of economics that the competing interests of employer and labor mean that there is a never-ending upwards spiral, and we are locked into it until and unless we all agree that there is going to be some form of exchange other than "money"; which is nothing more than a human mental construct in any case.

So, when you say you remember when the dollar had "real value", that's really just a call to go back to "the good old days". But people in the good old days remembered when bread cost half as much, too. There was never a golden age when everything cost less, since we all had less, too. It's all relative.

"When the streets were safe to walk": (and I apologize for paraphrasing you, but I'm clicking back and forth between pages already without scrolling as well)
Would it surprise you to learn that the US murder rate in 1998 was lower than in 1939, according to the FBI's Uniform Crime Reports 1933-1998? You seem to hint that you are a conservative. If you study the actual data, you'll find that violent crime statistics of all sorts tends to go up during Republican administrations, and down during Democrat presidencies. I'm not suggesting a direct correlation; certainly many could suggest reasons why this could be. But it is suggestive that unemployment also tends to go up during Republican terms, and down when a Dem is in the White House, while the GDP rises under Democrats. Clinton had the longest sustained economic boom in world history; Obama oversaw the longest sustained recovery since the Depression. I don't make these things up.

I am not trying, again, to make a polemical point, but your post seems as if maybe you are.

Okay, maybe I am making a slight polemical point, since I don't understand how anyone can look at the Republican Party today and think that they are a party of fiscal discipline or law and order. This is the party of tax cuts for the rich, financed by sky-high deficits. The only time you hear most Republicans worrying about the debt is when social programs or infrastructure spending is on the table, and a Democrat is in office. As for law and order; their performance both leading up to and after January 6 sacrificed all pretense to that title. If you won't defend the Constitution, what law can you possibly claim to uphold?

We both swore to defend against all enemies foreign and domestic. Right now, people like Trump, Matt Goetz, and Marjorie Taylor Greene are enemies, domestic.

I now return you to your regularly scheduled programming.

Thank you for your thoughtful response. This is the kind of response I can truly respect.
You make some very good points and I won't dispute them without examining the actual data.
It's a pleasure to encounter someone who can actually make me examine my own position from another point of view.

You are correct that the value of the dollar is a moving target and should be viewed in relation to income. I believe that the phenomena of inflation is far more complex than wages chasing prices or vice versa. I have read books on the federal reserve and monetary policy and still don't really understand the interplay.

I'm not calling for a return to the "good old days" There were plenty of problems then too.

As to safety, I make that comment from the perspective of my personal life experience. I grew up in a residential neighborhood of St. Paul, Minnesota. As a young child I could and did walk the streets alone at any time of day or night without fear of bad guys. Crime was nearly unheard of.
I no longer live there but I do visit the area sometimes. It has become a dangerous place and I would not walk those streets at night without fear of being robbed or worse. To use a tired cliche', your mileage may vary.

I don't like labels because they are always misleading. If pressed, I would describe myself as an independent thinker.

Brother, only you can chop someone off at the knees without them knowing it, thank you.

@dumasarok On your specific example, St. Paul MN, like so many other cities, presents a paradox. The last year was obviously exceptional for every large city, and particularly for Minneapolis/St Paul, in the wake of George Floyd's murder and the protests/counterprotests which followed. This was only compounded by the pandemic and the stressors on normal life which it caused; I won't even attempt to detail these in this brief reply.

And yet, in 2019, the last pre-pandemic year, even though murders in St Paul were up 25% and property crime rose 12%, with an overall increase of 8% in "serious crime", the overall violent crime rate was lower than at any time since 1995. See this article for the breakdown. [twincities.com]

The article sums it up better than I could:

There’s often a gap between crime statistics and people’s perceptions of safety, so if “you took the headline and said, ‘Violent crime is down,’ and surveyed the community, many would say, ‘It doesn’t feel like it,’ ” said James Densley, a Metropolitan State University criminal justice professor. “It’s partly based on consumption of media and social media, but it’s also based on lived experience, and we know that homicides have a massive impact on a community.”

I will also argue that the 24-hour news cycle and the relentless drumbeat of "murders, robberies, crime" in our collective and individual awareness has deeply effected our perceptions as well. The reality we perceive is not the reality that exists. I am a CCW holder and carry concealed almost everywhere I go, and where it's not lawful to carry I still have a backup folding knife "just in case". I survey my surroundings. I'm a corrections officer, so it's partly habitual for me, but it's also partly the result of the cultural acclimitization I'm talking about. I myself have come within a hair's breadth of being shot by my local police who responded to a report of some "incident" in my apartment but failed to clearly identify themselves while pounding on my door at 1 a.m., and so I had a pistol in my off hand when I answered the door (shades of Breonna Taylor!). All of which is to say that the closest I have come to needing or using any of my firearms was a near-shootout with my own PD. Reality is not as dangerous as we imagine- although I could not sleep anywhere but the couch, fully clothed, for weeks after that incident.

None of us see "reality"; we see the constructs our minds build. I try to gather as much empirical data as I can to make my reality as close to objective as possible. Objectively, you're safer now than you were 25 years ago.

@Paul4747 Regarding my comment about safety, it was based on my experiences in the far East side of St. Paul. The increase in street crime there began many years before the George Floyd incident.

Your comment regarding subjective reality is very perceptive and I agree with it completely.

I too have a carry permit. In MN the weapon does not have to be concealed. That said, I believe open carry is foolish and I would not do it. Actually I very rarely carry on my person at all.
I do have a weapon in my vehicle within easy reach when I travel to the metro area.

@dumasarok Open carry is legal in MI as well, but those who do it (except while hunting or target shooting) in my view are just trying to "assert a right" that doesn't need asserting. When far right fights far left, the middle loses.

This has been a pleasant conversation, thank you!

2

rational discourse is so 90s.

1

Hi. Be assured that people who feel helpless or powerless use attacks on character and ad hominems.

Otherwise, they would say perhaps "I disagree" or "There's another explanation."

Continue to ignore them, or perhaps ask "Was that attack necessary?"

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