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I believe that Jesus as a historical figure. Am I wrong about this?

Walkerman2020 4 July 27
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44 comments

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9

Yup, he was hysterical in the Life of Brian.

Brian was hysterical. Never saw jesus, he never got out of the manger. Brian's mother chased the wise men down the path for Indian giving, and created an awful scene. So the mother of jesus(assumed) stayed in the manger protecting him.

7

Yes: he actually lived THREE times - which explains your triplicate posts...

😂😂😂🦇🦇🦇🙌🙌🙌

7

Is Jesus a hysterical figure?

6

I think you started out on the right foot, you believe that Jesus of Nazareth was a historical figure but it is just a belief because there really is no hard evidence to confirm that such a person ever existed outside of the New Testament which was written by people forming a religion and not historians.
The closest evidence of Jesus having existed would be from either Josephus or Tacitus who were both historians from the period after the death of the biblical Jesus and they were both born after the death of the biblical Jesus so they never saw him or witnessed anything that the Bible attributes to Jesus.
The Bible supports the existence of Jesus as a man but The Lord of the Rings trilogy supports the existence of Bilbo and Frodo Baggins as hobbits, given the passage of time we may have a religion based upon the writings of J.R.R. Tolkien. It's certainly a more interesting read. 😉

5

I met a guy named Clark Kent .... so superman is real?

5

I believe Merlin lived.... so magic is real?

Merlin does exist!!! I went kayaking with him last week!!!

Ummm .... didn't see any magic tricks though ....

@Normanbites I wonder if that was the correct Merlin or a decoy? 😁 Hope you had a good trip!

5

can you delete two of your three postings.

4

I believe that Thomas the tank engine as a historical figure. Am I wrong about this?

Garf Level 7 July 28, 2021

OH!!! But WAIT!!! Thomas the tank engine was "based on a real person"!!!

@Normanbites did the fat controller tell you that?

4

Bart Ehrman believes that Jesus is real, but primarily based on the biblical description of his birth. Since we know no Roman census required their subjects to travel to Bethlehem, the story was fabricated to explain how a man from Nazareth was born in Bethlehem. That detail was added to allow the actual man who claimed to be the messiah to stay in accord with the prophecies.

My thought is that most likely, the biblical character was a greatly exaggerated composite of numerous people. Possibly, the result of old tales that were joined and ascribed a single legendary character.

However, the real person or people who became Jesus in myth, were not important enough to be documented during his/ their actual lifetime(s). It wasn't until decades later that anyone bothered to write about "The most important person" who ever lived.

JimG Level 8 July 28, 2021
4

He's a young, good right winger soccer player from Spain playing for the Spain national team, but I wouldn't call him historical.

I thought he was my gardener!!!

@GipsyOfNewSpain - Spelled the same but pronounced differently.

4

I think he was a leftist hippy that looked like Snoop Dog!! That’s what I always told my kids when they was little anyhows....😶

4

There is no evidence to support that. Nothing was written about him during his supposed time on Earth.

BDair Level 8 July 27, 2021

tim is not real, does not “exist” at all, right
yet tim has an important message to relate

3

Unless Jesus was also a demonstrable "god", who gives a shit?

redbai Level 8 July 28, 2021
3

You are totally, completely and absolutely wrong.

3

No. Myth. NO evidence. IF there were a Jesus, he would have had a real mother, not a virgin named Mary. There were no Mary's at that time and no virgin named anything else.if he had been crucified, there would have been no resurrection. Once you're dead, you're dead

3

I don't believe there is any evidence of him as an historical figure. There doesn't appear to be a single reference to him from during his lifetime. Almost as if he was invented later. hmmm.

3

You're probably right that it's what you believe.

As for Jesus, well there was a guy, I'm sure, but he had a different name, lived about forty years after the date given for the crucifixion, didn't say any of the crap in the Bible and led a revolt against Rome that was part of why the Temple was destroyed in 70ad. In the 30's there's no indication of any revolutionary activity in Israel. He was born in Egypt and obscured from history by Josephus. He had a partner that was beheaded at the Jordan River and wasn't John the Baptist who had lived some 40 years before. He was a descendant of Julius Caesar and Cleopatra, a grandchild in fact. Beyond that we know practically nothing of the man other than being called "The Egyptian" and he led a raid on the marketplace in the Temple where about 200 of his men were defeated and he vanished from history, there were no mentions of him since that raid.

The Gospels are Roman propaganda that urge people to "render unto Caesar" and encourages slaves to be obedient to their masters. Do you honestly believe the God that told his people to genocide Canaanites wants his "children" to be submissive sheep?
Don't worry God's not real either.

So you understand, it's as if someone wrote a story about Donald Trump being killed in the 1960's after writing the 1964 Civil Rights act for Johnson right before giving an "I've got a dream speech." thus providing salvation for white people, but changing his name to Charles Manson. Then since I'm the only historian in the area I make sure to never mention Trump (aka Charlie) ever being our first criminal president.
It's kind of like that.

Historically you might be onto something.

The biblical text says (prophesied) the "lord" was Egyptian.

The Egyptian will say according to the prophetic:
The LORD Almighty will bless them, saying, “Blessed be Egypt my people, Assyria my handiwork, and Israel my inheritance.” Isaiah 19:25

@Word “ The biblical text says (prophesied) the "lord" was Egyptian”
where?

“ "The Egyptian" and he led a raid on the marketplace in the Temple where about 200 of his men were defeated…” im not getting any very relevant hits for this, got a link? ty

@bbyrd009 Start here [en.wikipedia.org]
Google responds with hits for Moses when you Google "First Century Jewish rebellion leaders" so the study is intense and I read it to find out not to argue so I made no attempt to organize any of the information.

@bbyrd009 He had about 30 thousand rebels so he was a serious threat to Rome, yet almost none of us have ever heard of him, how would a carpenter raise that sized army? He was obviously noble with a claim to Jerusalem. He's been hidden and replaced by peaceful Jesus magical meek and mild.
It's all a lie.

@Willow_Wisp ok, ty
im fam with this egyptian, but it seems the relevant passages in the bible preclude his being jesus? Wrong Caesar, etc?

@bbyrd009 The Bible is a fiction approved by Rome and written by Jewish traitors then embellished in many places by Romans. The objective being pacification of the population so they'd better serve Rome. Why else would the bulk of Rome convert to Christianity? Christianity is the remnant of the Pagan Roman empire, and they did it by being the "bad" guys and using Hellenized Jewish mythology.

@Willow_Wisp i would agree that Constantine “adopted” christianity and conflated it with the dominant religion, cult of sol invictus, but the rest i seriously doubt, wadr

@bbyrd009 That's ok, you just found the concept literally a few minutes ago, I was looking into this for over twenty years then got board about fourteen years ago during my divorce. Apparently within the last five years a number of books have come out that agree with me, if not in the specifics certainly in the concept, it's worth looking into, or remain ignorant, your choice.

@Willow_Wisp i forgot the concept about forty years ago, and you are not answering my question?

The incident is recorded in the Bible, which at least apparently precludes jesus being that egyptian, and fwiw there are books on this subject too, i have like two of them still…
have a nice day though

@bbyrd009 This wasn't a concept forty years ago, so you're a liar too, and nothing true is recorded in the Bible which is why there's zero external evidence to collaborate any of it.

@Willow_Wisp um, its installed in the bible, and even John or someone…Paul? was accused of being that guy? Shall i go and…ah ok, nevermind, and have a nice afternoon ok

@bbyrd009 The LORD Almighty will bless them, saying, “Blessed be Egypt my people, Assyria my handiwork, and Israel my inheritance.” Isaiah 19:25

Matthew 5:17 (“Do not think that I have come to abolish Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.&rdquo😉

Jesus "the lord" is about fulfilling what the prophets said.

A theme of the biblical text is, if the prophets said such as Isaiah prophesy says, then Jesus being "the lord" is about fulfilling or doing what the prophets said.

What did Isaiah indicate? The lord will say "Egypt my people..."

Do you know anything about illogical atheist Richard Dawkins meme mind virus organism? The mind virus organism of the old testiment people was Egyptian. Why do you think so much of the old testiment looks like a plagerzing of Egyptian mythology? Because the Egyptian mythology was the "logos" mind virus meme organism" of the old testiment people.

John 1:1 ...the logos(meme) was with God and was God. John 1:14 ... the logos(meme) became flesh. <referring to Jesus character >

@bbyrd009 A meme (/miːm/ MEEM)[1][2][3] is an idea, behavior, or style that spreads by means of imitation from person to person within a culture and often carries symbolic meaning representing a particular phenomenon or theme.[4] A meme acts as a unit for carrying CULTURAL ideas, symbols, or practices, that can be TRANSMITTED from one mind to another through writing, speech, gestures, rituals, or other imitable phenomena with a MIMICKED theme. Supporters of the concept regard memes as cultural analogues to genes in that they SELF-REPLICATING , MUTATE, and respond to selective pressures.

[en.m.wikipedia.org]

The LORD "meme" is Egyptian. Lord will say, "Egypt my people..."

Transmitted to Israel biblical text agreement "Israel my inheritance " Isaiah 19:25

MIMICKED as it is most commonly considered that Israel plagerzed Egyptian mythology because people have not understood the meme organism.

Muation can be observed in the difference between Egyptian mythology and biblical accounts.

Self-replicating is indicative of understanding Jesus character as "son of meme". The meme organism produced an offspring according to the words of the old testiment meme and the purported life of Jesus character is a repeat (fulfilling meme prophesy) .

@bbyrd009 another view of the transmission/offspring and mutation of the meme organism as it passed from Israel into Rome (catholic church) which history shows offspring mutation in the protestant movements and other such events of church denominations

@Willow_Wisp @bbyrd009

I copied a section below indicating how some language was analyzed.

If you say the new testiment was totally fictional written in like 300 A.D. , can you explain the genius it would take to write the new testiment in language and in styles that would follow with when they were purported to have been written?

If someone fictionalized the new testiment like 300 years after it was supposedly written, how did they know to correctly use "...and they show features of Hebrew poetry and thought-forms." from like 50 A.D.?

Paul's letters contain a number of creeds and hymns (Romans 1:3–4;1 Corinthians 11:23 ff.;15:3–8; Philippians 2:6–11; Colossians1:15–18;1 Timothy 3:16; 2 Timothy 2:8; see also John 1:1–18; 1 Peter 3:18–22; 1 John 4:2).[45] Three things can be said about them. First, they are pre-Pauline and very early. They use language which is not characteristically Pauline, they often translate easily back into Aramaic, and they show features of Hebrew poetry and thought-forms. This means that they came into existence while the church was heavily Jewish and that they became standard, recognized creeds and hymns well before their incorporation into Paul's letters. Most scholars date them from 33 to 48. Some, like Hengel, date many of them in the first decade after Jesus' death.

[bethinking.org]

2

The vast majority of historians if that time period agree that he was but the are also aware that the supporting evidence for it is flimsy. It basically comes down to two point. The Jamesian reference in Josephus and Paul's second hand account of meeting the apostles and Jesus brother James. Neither are primary sourcea and josephus wasn't even contemporary.

So far as I know to date, NO contemporary records of the Christ figure have ever been found. Paul himself says he never met the Christ figure.

2

There’s no evidence.

2

There are a lot of líes in history.... is a mankind thing.

BINGO!!! Just look at our various "fiction" industries!! Humans love to tell stories. For example:
Cinema
Fiction literature
Religion
Politicians
Used Car Salesmen

There's no end of humans making stuff up.

2

I to think he is hysterical!

2

If ancient old fantasy figures can be called historical, maybe.

Leelu Level 7 July 27, 2021

near as i can tell contemporaries would have immediately understood the references (above) that we now debate over, ya

1

I think that if you called out the name Jesus on a crowded street at that time in history at least 50 20 people would turn around.

I meant 50 people.

1

You misspelled hysterical.

1

Looks like you are having a relapse... believing again.

Corvus Level 6 July 28, 2021
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