Jazz. The 20th century music innovation. John Coltrane. Miles Davis. Bill Evans. I could go on, but you get my drift.

@Palindromeman - That music follows a different historical trajectory. Jazz is rooted in the Classical European tradition, melodically and harmonically.
It began its trek in the 19th century, but though it flourished TEMPORALLY in the 20th century, is hardly - until the more recent years, considered part of the 20th century music tradition...

It basically goes through an increasingly impressionist period during the 1940s and 50s - and gets quite “20th century” towards and following the 60s.

FORTUNATELY, throughout most of its history, Jazz maintained it’s Classical (and historically African) routes and was popular, easily “understood” and financially successful.

UNFORTUNATELY, Its “20th century music” influences and artistic snobbery (later Classical, Impressionist and 20th Century music), along with shameless commercialism, has driven it to a class of music that the public has grown sharply aloof to as its musical proponents increasingly tend to look down on the audience of common people it grew out of, who now more and more have to be educated in musical appreciation in order to understand it.

I love Coltrane Miles and Bill E. But their increasing “artistic” influence, and modern musical leanings, especially in the hands of their musician followers and influencees, eventually separated the music from its uniquely popular jazz traditions, This began with the Bebop era as I understand it all - even as that music was well received by “the people” but also became more and more the property of the BEAT GENERATION of social outcasts but musical sophisticates.

The only thread of music and musicians that managed to maintain the popular elements of jazz tradition seem to come from MILES DAVIS - from whom comes the music/musicians of Coltrane, Evans, and HERBIE HANCOCK - the only jazz musician to stay on the popular charts EVERY DECADE of his musical life through the 1980s. Even as “pure jazz” musicians looked down him (and other artists, like HORACE SILVER) for doing it - along with any other musician that actually SOLD RECORDS AND TICKETS !!

This aloofness in Jazz is part of the Classical and Impressionist influences it grew out of, but its more popular and African influences gave it a distinctly popular quality, while outputting a good product of high artistic value.

This unique fusion brought about decades of a “golden jazz era”, where Jazz was a music of high artistic content, that was easily appreciated by the great unwashed masses...

Its increasingly Impressionist and finally “20th century music” influences, along with rampant commercialism, increasingly drove it to an “artistic” realm of “pure music”/“music for musicians”, to where it’s now a type of music that is not even much appreciated among the common folks it arose from.

From its inception, Jazz was unique as a high artistic quality music that was readily appreciated by the most not-musically trained people and resulted in quite a number of well received compositions, which continued but thinned out through the 70s, 80s and beyond until now, where much of it too is influenced in the “20th century music” genre that few can comprehend without taking a music appreciation class!

“New age music” is one unfortunate blend of this unique Jazz tradition and “20th century music” - a “20th century music” that equally SUCKS...

My apologies to the few Jazz musicians that actually DO pursue a more musically well received direction...

Sorry to be so long winded, but this is JAZZ we are talking!

@Ungod For the love of god please tell me you did not see La La Land...

A well thought out observation, thank you.

I had always considered New Orleans as the cradle of jazz. But, as with everything, everything has a precursor. An influence.

I would note that Scandinavian jazz is on the rise - perhaps demonstrating the universality of the genre. I like the Tord Gustavsen trio:

@Palindromeman - Just please don’t CURSE jazz any further than it has already been in American society, by calling it “20th Century Music”!!

@Ungod Well, it's the 21st century now, so let's call it a living evolving musical genre.

@Palindromeman - Don’t make the mistake of thinking new music comes about each century... Real music history is not a Billboard poll!

“20st Century Music”, as was the impressionist era before it, is more practically understood to be about destruction of the typical “tonic-dominant” musical dialogue that defined music until then...

@Ungod Really? That doesn't sound like the music I'm listening to recorded since 2000. But, then, there is so much music available around no one could keep up with all of it.

@Palindromeman - It's not what's recorded. It's the "style" of the music. The expression of harmony mostly in western civilization, with now more worldwide influences entering the mix.

Don't get caught up in the categories.

It's just the flow of human expression as it blossoms in all areas of a particular society.

Music and other arts describe this flow, particularly in its various swells where we categorize...

He's my favorite!!

Jumped up millennials....

A 20th century composer ??? !!! ???

@Ungod See my other thread.

@Palindromeman See mine...

@Ungod @Palindromeman asked for our favorite “pre 20th century composer.”

@ArturoS
See mine...

So you like a bit of sturm und drang then?

A 20th century composer ??? !!! ???

@Ungod 20th century wasn't the question

@GwenC - Yeah... Dumb question IMHO!

The Well Tempered Clavier for me, but respect on the Brandenburg Concertos.

@Palindromeman
Love to listen to The Well Tempered Clavier. Still have to get through learning JSB’s 2 and 3 Part Inventions. Slow going.

Ahhh, see now you are cheating. My next question is 20th century composers.