So... you're a closet douchebag who makes crude assumptions about others, and you think your comment above makes you look intelligent and in the know?

I don't walk around in a constant state of fear, but I do like to be prepared for life's little challenges that get thrown my way every now and then. Do you want to know what real fear looks like, Ace? The truly fearful psychos out there were the ones at home pissing in their fucking pants while watching the news on television the day after January 6th 2021 over a bunch of retards in desperate need of attention who were running around in the Capitol building because some asshole suggested they do so. As if those retards were really scary, oh please, and yet there was no shortage of folks who were fearful and some of whom claimed to suffer a mental breakdown afterwards. Give me a fucking break...

I grew up with guns in my household, my father started me on Co2-powered airguns and as I got older he taught me how to use regular guns and gun safety protocol. That was over three decades ago, and yes I do practice, so I'd say I possess an adequate understanding of gun safety and practice. I used to work in armed security, and as a condition for continued employment I was subjected at random to drug/mental/physical tests and evaluations, all of which I passed.

You asked- How do you judge who is the "bad guy" and who is "the other good guy with a gun"? That's just a joke question right? Or are you really that stupid? When someone waltzes into the local shopping mall and pulls out a gun and starts shooting anyone in his line of sight, it's not too damn hard to realize who the bad guy is, and if you really couldn't figure that one out on your own without me having to tell you, you just might be a moron. And yes, I do check what's behind my intended target always, and consider possible ricochet scenarios.

"Is your manhood so small that you have to carry a .357 Magnum, .45, and use hollow point or armor piercing shells?" Hey tin soldier boy, just curious since you brought the topic up, is your cock so small your Army rifle had to always have an M203 attached to it, or was it just a bayonet? So... does that mean you're challenging me to a penis duel, lol? There's a group on here called Hot Hunks, and I'm sure the ladies in that group would be delighted to host such. Having once entertained at multiple hen party side gigs in my twenties, let me give you a hint since you sound like a clueless chump... the women didn't exactly like me just for my face, and I'll let you figure out the rest. So how's about it since obviously you're fixated on other guy's manhood, wanna have a penis duel in that group. Of course, by now I'm sure you're a decrepit mummy who can no longer even get it up anymore, assuming that is you can even find it, lol.

How many times in the past ten years have guns saved lives and halted criminal acts? Your point is moot.

Already have done that before and always passed, and my doctor keeps a watchful eye on me now that I have Type 1 Diabetes (I guess for depression screening or something as supposedly diabetics are more prone to such) regarding screening for depression etc. For that matter, think you should take a look in the mirror sometime, your whole comment was nothing more than deranged angry babbling, meaningless unintelligible dribble. I could take a psychological exam, pass it and share it on here, and yet I'm sure even that wouldn't be enough evidence for you, so why should I do anything you ask, right? ( at salute) SIR, GO FUCK YOURSELF, SIR. I suggest you go get your brain checked out, sounds like you may have spent far too much time in Iraq, you're an angry and delusional drip. Or was it in Afghanistan, lol?

Now wait wait... I just thought up a great idea... regarding your demand on the psychological exam, how's about I do this instead... I'll call you a frustrated two-bit slack-jawed cunt, and give you the one finger salute, and you'll sit behind your keyboard and accept it.

Cheers, cheap tin soldier.

@SpikeTalon
Oh, my ... thanks for the laugh.

Apparently, you don't realize how much of yourself you revealed with your little diatribe there.
If calling me a "frustrated two-bit slack-jawed cunt" and giving me the one finger salute is the the best you can do, you have the mind of an adolescent ... which really is kinda sad for a guy your age. And saying you take a psycho test and pass doesn't mean that has actually happened. Unless it was that one that Trump took and passed "Person, woman, man, camera, TV." Good boy!

Being a gun-for-hire aligns with your personality, so that was def not a surprise. Was getting a crew cut or flat top especially fulfilling for you? earning minimum wage an unexpected bonus ?

Since you didn't answer half of my questions, but rather tried to pivot to another subject, I'll just assume that you had a horrible accident in your youth which robbed you of your manhood and dangly parts and you have substituted a big truck with a lift kit and your .357 Magnum with hollow points to ease your mental anguish about your lack of manhood.

... oh, and "Spike Talon" for a profile name? LOL. You are a legend in your own mind.

@AtheistInNC Don't mention it... I got alot of laughs out of your initial reply as well. Same goes for you as well, and I respond in kind to assholes who go around assuming things about me. If my reply bothered you, then I suggest you finally grow up and act like a man instead of a child hurling baseless insults. Haha, speak for yourself dude, and what I said was far more creative than anything you provided, guess my choice of words was too much for you to handle. You only get what you give, and you started it with the dick joke.

Saying you're a veteran doesn't mean that you really are one, see how that works? If you're going to go there with me, then I'm not inclined to believe any of your claims either.

What questions? Most of your initial reply was an angry and incoherent mishmash of ignorance, and some of your pointless questions didn't apply to me. At least I always made my living in the private sector, and never at the taxpayer expense. I don't own a truck, or even a .357 for that matter.

Aw isn't that precious, the degenerate is jealous of my profile name on here, which is why he had to make a special point to down it, lol. At least my profile name couldn't be mistaken for female, unlike yours, as if AtheistInNC is anything creative.

@SpikeTalon

Saying I am a vet doesn't mean it, but my DD214 speaks volumes about my service. What does your DD214 say?

Oh, I'm sorry ... I see you didn't join the service. Why not? Scared? Mommy and Daddy didn't give you permission? Couldn't pass the physical?

Your whole persona is built around your self-image of being a badass who carries a gun, but when it all boils down, you aren't badass ... you are barely literate.

It's all about you in your mind. I'm sure if someone pulled a gun and started shooting and you were nearby, you would run away rather than engage. You could probably apply for a position on the Uvalde police force and get hired immediately. Why don't you try?

Or are you afraid you wouldn't pass their physical, either?

@AtheistInNC If you want to be technical, that's no more real than claiming you're a vet, and if you want to question some of my claims I'll return the favor.

You're right, I didn't join the service, I'm not just another bitch for a crooked Government to use and abuse. Some of us got to where we did in life without any help from the Government.

I'm sure you don't even know the definition of the word illiterate. Speak for yourself.

Take your own advice regarding joining the Uvalde Police Force. Also while you're at it, get a job, from the looks of it you've got too much spare time on your hands. If you're retired, find some more hobbies to indulge in.

I'll wager anything I'm in better physical condition than you are. Everything you accuse me of you're guilty of yourself, and having served in the Armed Forces doesn't automatically make one a wonderful or intelligent individual. Sounds like you hate the very country you had supposedly served. I'm not a "badass" either, never claimed to be, you're the one making shit up there convincing yourself I'm trying to become some sort of legend, lol.

@SpikeTalon This douche bag is an esteemed member of the asshole group .

That is certainly fine and understandable, and I certainly would never push you to get a gun for whatever reason if you would be uncomfortable in any way doing so. That be strictly your choice, and I respect that.

Yeah... with help from black markets most people can easily get their hands on a gun these days, and the laws are pretty much powerless to control that. Just ask the major cities like Chicago or Philadelphia, whom have out of control daily violent crime sprees, and whose laws don't seem to be making much of a difference.

I'm not opposed to stopping mentally ill people from getting their hands on weapons, it's just that the current screening process/system is messed up beyond belief. Yearly mental health exams sound like a good idea across the board and not only for gun ownership. Unfortunately, mental illness is still too often stigmatized, and because of that many people who are suffering from such continue to do so in silence minus any kind of help from others, until one day they just crack under the pressure and do something unspeakable. So I agree on the mental health part. Another thing we should do is make sure every kid gets a quality education and is not allowed to drop out of school. So many kids these days are allowed to fall through the cracks, and in turn these kids start to feel helpless and that there's no hope for their future, and those are the kids who turn to gangs and a life of crime, in which black market guns will surely eventually enter the equation.

As for the temper part, that's understandable too, and I used to be rather hotheaded myself as a kid, but over the years mellowed out quite a bit. Now, sometimes think I'm a bit too reasonable and understanding with people, to a point where some had taken advantage of my kindness. It's in my nature to want to help out though, which is what spurred me to do this post.

Thank you for taking the time to leave a rational and reasonable response, which is more than I could say for some others who had commented, much appreciated. Hope you've been doing okay, I know your profession can be taxing on the nerves at times.

It's hard to reson with people who can't see past their own emotions over a particular subject. I also carry a firearm everyday, mostly to protect myself and loved ones I don't give a shit about others at this point in my life. I used to think me carrying was pointless but living in the city now has changed my mind. I see homeless people crackheads criminals and gang graffiti everyday now. I grew up in a small but rough town and also have lived in the Houston area for several years, now I live in Tulsa and feel safer than ever now that I carry.

@Tejas The ones who automatically assume my go to sidearm is some sort of "assault gun" are the ones in particular who are the most difficult to reason with. Their irrational fear and dread on that can at times be mildly humorous though, albeit also concerning at the same time. Geez, who knew an 8-round handgun was a weapon of mass destruction, lol.

Indeed, crime and violent crime in particular is the problem, and until if and when a viable longterm solution is discovered people here will continue to be worried about such and rightly so. Criminals will always find a way to arm themselves if they want.

'Criminals will always find a way to arm themselves if they want.'
Ah, that's an old argument. Still, it is true that criminals always find ways to smuggle illegal firearms. That is why we have strict firearms regulations on manufacturing, sales, purchases, use and importing of firearms so as to make smuggling and illegal use of firearms as hard as possible. Incidentally, we are not deprived of the right to own a firearm; one can apply for a licence under the law. There needs to be a comprehensive approach to creating a safe society.

@Ryo1 Regulations won't be enough for anywhere once 3D printing technology starts to become more mainstream. I can't speak for other countries, but here in the US gun control regulations have largely failed the people, not to mention there are folks out there who have the know all to craft their own weapons. Try as they may, the Government will never have the capacity to actively police everyone in the country. In the meantime, their focus should be shifted to providing services to the mentally ill and other needy people suffering similar ailments, and if everyone was a bit happier and contented with their lives and are given a sound reason to believe there is hope in the future, violent crimes would probably see a considerable increase. That would be a win win for all.

@TheMiddleWay That's hardly redundant, it's reality. Of course, there's a dedicated number of people in our society who insist on conflating your average gun owner with violent criminals simply based on the tool used in the crime. Not to be outdone, I've often found the "I'm fearful of people carrying guns out in public" to be rather redundant, an excuse to give when there's no other viable alternative to negate the pro-carry side of the debate. Especially knowing when the world is filled with things that are truly dangerous in which holding a measure of fear could be justified, like Covid or HIV/AIDS. While I am not directly afraid of those, my chances of contracting a horrid disease/STD of the like is far greater than me ever getting struck by a bullet.

@SpikeTalon
'in the US gun control regulations have largely failed the people'
That's intriguing. How so? Can you elaborate on that? Because I am not aware of any country/society which has become less safe with increased numbers of gun crimes as a result of introducing stricter gun laws.

@Ryo1 You cannot compare the US to other countries on that, other factors to consider, from population size to unique crime rates from country to country. The population in the UK is currently around 68,675,000, compared to the USA at around 331,900,000, which is a considerable difference when determining violent crime statistics per capita. In other words, in one country what may appear to be frequent mass violent crimes (think mass shootings for example) may be misleading in the sense that such statistics may strictly be only going by certain locations.

I'm from Pennsylvania, and a small town like Emmaus PA does not see the level of violent crime that say a city like Philadelphia does. Point is, most of our media outlets in the US have a tendency to mostly focus on the trouble areas and not taking into consideration all areas, in which to get a better understanding regarding crime stats. Speaking of Philadelphia, that city has among some of the toughest gun control laws on the books in the state of Pennsylvania, yet that city continues to be riddled with violent crimes, and their Mayor and PD seem helpless to really do anything about it. In other words, their laws have largely failed them, and too many people continue to die because of failed laws.

When any non-American comments on the US' perceived problem with gun violence and state to an extent that it must suck to live in such a country where one supposedly has to worry about violent crimes on a daily basis, they are missing the bigger picture, as there are many towns and cities across the US which see a considerably lower level of crime compared to others, thus only taking into consideration the gun related crimes they make a big deal of in the medias is only a small part to a bigger picture. While was born in Allentown, I grew up in neighboring Emmaus, and the two cannot be reasonably compared when it comes to crime and how safe the citizens feel.

Again, considering certain factors, no two countries can be fully compared when it comes specifically to gun related crimes. Take Iran for instance, a country in which only allows those who register with the state to own firearms, and yet in an average year it's not uncommon for them to witness hundreds of gun related fatalities, and it's my understanding of such that a good portion of said incidents involved unregistered individuals. If the laws truly worked as they intended, then one would conclude such incidents should not occur, but they do though. That's also not considering the countries out there that have banned private gun ownership and whom consistently oppress their citizens, like North Korea, but I digress as that's a whole other issue.

So in talking about how safe Americans feel, often times in such discussions we only get part of the story, and not the broader outlook on the matter. As for me, as mentioned before I grew up in Emmaus and now live in Allentown, and while the latter of the two can certainly be the roughest to live in at times, I do not walk around in a constant state of fear, because for the most part there's no need to. My chances of contracting Covid or some horrible STD are far greater than getting struck and killed by a stray bullet.

@TheMiddleWay You can make all the laws you want... and a good portion of them have and shall continue to fail, especially given the times and the current state of our economy. I'm not saying we shouldn't have any laws, but I do ask what good are they if only some follow them while others can conveniently ignore it, and that doesn't sound fair to me. Repeating the same mistakes over and over again repeatedly while believing or expecting different results is by definition the meaning of insanity. For example... these designated "gun free" zones like shopping malls and public schools are frequent targets of criminal gunmen, and designating them as such has not kept such places any safer. What's it going to take for me to get you to realize laws/ordinances like that aren't doing enough and or have been total failures for too many, and that more of the same will not help any.

Gun-related injuries is vague, which means that particular statistic is skewed, and in this case skewed in your favor. Now... how many from that 45,222 were a result of suicide? Many, not sure exact numbers there, but I do know that on a yearly basis roughly sixty-percent of those annual figures are attributed to suicide. Suicide is a personal matter, and factoring them in with actual gun-related crimes is wrong and misleading, as the focus should be on actual crimes committed with guns. The Government has no business getting involved in that part, and the political left as a whole would pretty much agree with me that deciding to end one's own life is strictly a personal choice, and who in the actual fuck care about how someone else decides to commit suicide? I can see recording such for statistical reasons only, but when you want to conflate those statistics with crime statistics that's misleading and skews the numbers in your favor.

Well... what would you expect when we live in a country where both major political parties are constantly at each other's throats dehumanizing each other? That's bound to be a recipe for disaster, and certainly a big reason why we are seeing so much political division nowadays. Fear does indeed sell quite well, and no shortage of those who are all too eager to make a purchase, and please note my restraint on talking about how the mainstream medias from both sides play to the people's fears and help promote chaos in society.

@SpikeTalon

OK, I can appreiciate that country-to-country comparison cannot be accurate. So, how about state-to-state comparison in the US?

I found two articles reagarding surveys on the relatioship between the strictness of gun laws and the number of gun deaths.

One survey concluded that you have higher rates of mass shootings in US states with more relaxed gun control laws. No surprise there.

The other concluded that three types of laws could reduce gun deaths by more than 10%, which are limiting children's access to guns, restricting concealed-carry permits, and restricting "stand your ground" policies.

These conclusions were each reached through a methodical and scientific approach.

[bmj.com]
[science.org]

Stand your ground laws encourage individuals to try to solve problems with bullets.
Try to solve problems with bullets - this is exactly the mindset you, and the like-minded, so firmly hold in your head, isn't it?

We agree that you and I live in different societies and different cultures. When I go out, I can confidently assume that no one around me will have a gun on them, whereas when you go out, you automatically take your gun with you with a thought that you might have to use it to protect yourself and/or others.

We have different starting points in thinking, and I naturally prefer the former.

In the meantime, stay safe and take care. Over and out.

I'm not interested in heroic daydreams, but I do like to help others if it's within my ability to do so. Regarding the OP above, twice now I nearly found myself in the middle of a shooting, both times of which the weapons used were black market acquisitions, which is why I feel as I do on the matter. Also both times the laws in place failed to protect anyone, and you can't rely on the police either.

On a side note, at least you took a humorous path there as opposed to a paranoid one like some did on this thread, so you get some Internet points for that I suppose, lol. Not sure what you meant by ungrateful libs though, and I'm fairly liberal myself. Ungrateful naive persons might be more like it, those who complain about both armed citizens and police officers all the while thinking the laws in place will magically shield them from any and all harm. I guess such people also believe "god" is going to protect them, so no actions on their part are required.

You said- "I too feel sorry for you, because you seem unable and unwilling to conceive of a better way; a better society. A world in which the fetishizing and mass ownership of deadly weapons is rightly seen as the problem, not the solution. A world in which the sane view predominates: The more guns in circulation, the less safe everyone collectively becomes." How many times do I have to go through this with you? That's deluded thinking that's not rooted in reality, and I'm not fetishizing anything, only stating a reality that you refuse to accept. Evil people and the violent actions they direct on others do exist, have since the beginning of time, and if guns aren't around violent thugs will use another means of hurting or killing others. Recently in Canada there was a mass stabbing in which ten people were killed and multiple others injured, a mass stabbing as in no guns were used yet many people were affected regardless. The "sane view" is adopted by a good portion in society, but I'm worried about the small minority that isn't that could negatively impact the rest of us. No, the more angry and mentally disturbed along with desperate thugs that continue to go unnoticed makes the rest of us become less safe. A world without guns or any other weapon does not exist, no matter how badly you may wish it to be so, get over your hippie delusions because it's not rooted in reality. You might as well believe in the mystical sky fairy saving you.

As for your take on evil, I have but one question for you... are you whacked on drugs or something. While I did mention the term evil, I also cited a rather specific evil, and no sane or rational person would offer up excuses attempting to justify acts that the rest of society would readily throw them in jail for committing. That's not stereotyping or dehumanizing perceived adversaries, as society as a collective would determine that random shootings in which people including young children getting killed would indeed constitute an act of evil, and that's not a mere cavalier opinion, as again any sane and rational person would arrive to the same conclusion. I don't bother or harass others, I wish to be left alone and not have to take any action as indicated above, but once someone makes it obvious that they refuse to leave others alone and threaten to kill them, at that point I'm forced to take action to defend myself whether I like it or not. Nothing "cavalier" about that, and your moral crusader argument holds no water either as I don't go around poking my nose in where it doesn't belong, someone has to start trouble with me first before I take any sort of action, and unfortunately I can't walk around all the times with a police officer in my pocket. I take it you also don't think child rapists are evil either? Even though society as a collective would toss someone like that in prison, just as sure they would someone who shoots up a shopping mall, because they are both evil actions. If you as an adult cannot see that, that society has established certain behaviors are wrong and or evil, then you just might be a clueless moron, and there's no sugarcoating that reality. I'll tell you who the dangerous people are in society... people like you who try to justify the criminal actions of thugs and crazies, making every excuse for them that you can while criticizing those who seek to keep society safe as possible. If someone is looking to inflict serious bodily harm or death on another, it really doesn't take a genius to realize such motivations are pure evil, and that's hardly an opinion. It must be inordinately taxing for anyone to be that stupid so as to make excuses like you did above in an attempt to justify what society as a whole would declare in a heartbeat to be acts of evil.

Now you're comparing me to Hitler, oh really now?? Hitler was a delusional madman, what I cited above constitutes reality, unless you want to try to convince me and every other American out there that random acts of violence like mall shootings or rapings are non-existent. You should take your own advice and be very careful about what you say, and good thing for you that I'm an atheist now and no longer an adherent to Judaism, because otherwise your Hitler comparison would have been flagged for harassment, and rightly so because it's a vile albeit grossly ludicrous comparison. Such a remark says alot about your mentality level, and it's nothing to be proud of. Never suggested said evil was some dark force infecting society, but evil actions do exist, and not acknowledging that is delusional and potentially dangerous. Be afraid/concerned about me all you want, I'm not the one you need to be or should be concerned about. I grew up around firearms, been using them since a young age, and never had one mishap. I live a block and a half away from a gun store, and no weapon they ever sold was ever used in a crime.

During my interactions with you on here I've tried to understand your point of view and give you the benefit of the doubt when others didn't hesitate to label you a moron and tune you out, and your recent comment above would indicate my patience with you was misplaced. When someone compares a Jewish man to Hitler, that person cannot be reasoned with, let alone the fact that attempting to justify and make excuses for otherwise criminal behaviors is concerning unto itself. I'm done with you, your statements indicate you are a gaslighting shit disturbing moron, and there's no sugarcoating that and I'm tired of giving you opportunity after opportunity to have a logical discussion with you only for you to gaslight me every single time with some of the most ludicrous comments and thoughts known to mankind. Go back to your circle jerk bub, I've no time for such delusions, and for those who attempt to prop-up would be criminals while labeling someone like me dangerous and delusional. You need to take a long hard look in the mirror. Sure hope you don't find yourself the next Canadian stabbing (or shooting) casualty, which certainly could happen despite your hippie outoook that everything is just fine and dandy.

You missed the point entirely.

@Alienbeing What point? the fact that the US has more people in jail than any other nation and that they are vastly disproportionally black or brown? No, because the invisibility program using "somebody else's problem" is at work here. Mather is white and rich so poor non-white problems do not exist in his world. He is on record for saying that he doesn't care about abortions because he's male. No, what constantly gets his goat his when he made to feel slightly uncomfortable. An unarmed black guy gets dragged out of his car by racist cops and a 10-year-old girl is forced to carry her rapist's child?... not his problem and not the problem of his all-white boomer audience. So this huge platform he has is just used to highlight non-issues and petty peeves

@273kelvin he was talking about protecting life with what he is able to do .. wtf .. he isn't a fucking juror or judge or lawmaker who is responsible for the horrors you mentioned.. why you such an asshole? You can't help it ?

I hear you brother. Life in England, like here in Canada, is very different from life in America, isn’t it?

@273kelvin Did I ask for anyone's pity? No need to feel sorry for me, I'm doing fine for the most part, but thank you anyway though for the concern. Your sympathies should be more directed towards those who live in areas of crime (or questionable anyways where crime is concerned) and which are largely left defenseless against crazed lunatics bent on harming others. This story in particular comes to mind, and sad it is that UK laws did not protect or keep them safe, save your sympathies for victims like that.- [huffpost.com]

As for the going out for groceries part and being ready to take a life, the alternative where you then be a potential victim is certainly no better or rational. I'll give you credit though for not showing a paranoid or fearful attitude towards someone like me, and that indicates you realize that people like me are not the true problem in society nor are we to be feared in any way, which is more than I could say for some of those who had commented on here. Again, I'm doing fine for the most part. I'm well aware of the reality that life itself is not fair nor was it ever meant to be, and my concern is for those who don't think to prepare ahead of time for the worst. I'm not thrilled with having to take such precautions, hardly, but will do what I have to as I cannot carry a police officer around with me in my pocket all the time, and no one else is looking out for my safety but me.

@laidback1 Thank you for understanding my point, and it is about taking certain precautions in which to help protect innocent lives, and I'm hardly thrilled about having to take such precautions. When people's emotions run high, critical and rational thinking go out the window, and the secular/atheist community is certainly no exception to that much.

Don’t shop or work in ptown ( Portsmouth ), or Newport News . I work in a high crime area . The only trauma level 480 beds hospital . I work nights . At least 3 gun shots a week . I don’t stop to get gas . My commute is 30 miles ea way . The gas station near the hospital , gun shot at 1300 the other day . Regular joe went to get coffee and fill up his car . Shut to death for 22 dollars . Just like that
I don’t live there , bcz I can afford to not live there . Many people they can’t

@SpikeTalon Sorry if my comment was a little off kilter but thought I was replying to a different post. (it was late at night).
My point is for you to imagine a world where being shot was not an option or at least such a small chance as to compare with lottery wins or lightning strikes. I recently had this discussion with a gun owner on Zoom. Due to the time difference, it was around 3 am UK time. He maintained that he was freer than I because he could carry a gun. I said that I at that moment could walk to my local all-night liquor store (in not a great neighbourhood) at not worry about being shot. Who is the freest?
It is not just yourself I feel sorry for. I also feel sorry for the cops who have to deal with an armed and often intoxicated population. I feel sorry for kids who worry about being shot at their school. For the grieving parents that who lost their children. And for the ER staff who have to patch up the victims of gun violence on a daily basis.
I am not some liberal snowflake social worker. I worked in construction most of my life. And I can tell you truthfully that at least 4 times in my life I've been in a kick-off where, had a gun been around it would have been used.
Look at it another way; This is paraphrasing what the mayor of NY recently said "We had upwards of 300,000 people in Times Square not long ago. If just 5% of them were armed? It would only take one argument to get out of hand (this is NY)... a gun was drawn and then other people would draw theirs. Unfortunately, not everyone is as well trained or as sober as my officers and does not always hit their intended target. Can you imagine trying to police that situation?"

@273kelvin All good, I understand. I also understand the point you made in the reply above. I cannot speak for other Americans, only for myself, and for the most part I do not walk around in a constant state of fear that I am going to get shot dead on the street, as the actions I take as depicted in the post above are simply precautions against what could be and not because of fear, and I take precautions in other areas in life as well. Like always wearing a seatbelt for example, and even though my driving record is spotless and I'm not likely to crash my car anytime soon, still an accident could occur at anytime. Mass shooting incidents in America, as classified by the Federal Government, are not as common as some believe them to be, but I digress as that's another topic altogether for perhaps another post another time.

These days, I don't think hardly anywhere in the world is totally safe all of the time. I heard recently in Canada there was a mass stabbing in which ten people were killed and at least another ten were seriously injured, and despite Canada's rather strict laws when it comes to private weapon ownership that wasn't enough to stop such a violent incident. All in all, despite some potential dangers out there, I do feel free because I'm able/allowed to own the tools to defend myself should the need arise and have a variety to choose from, and as the saying goes if you want something done you got to do it yourself. No better a person out there to defend me than myself.

Likewise, when you say you feel free living where you do under the circumstances you had described, I'll take you on your word on that. That said, I hope you aren't underestimating things, as maybe you might not come up against a gun-wielding thug anytime soon, but you could possibly come up against someone armed with a knife though, and getting stabbed to death is no more pleasant than getting shot. I'm sure those Canadians thought they had little to worry about too, until something horrible finally occured. As for me, I more or less adapted to my surroundings. Would it be ideal to live in a world in which I wouldn't need to take such precautions? Surely, that it would, but not exactly realistic though as each society out there will see their share of the criminal element, some more so than others. Hope that answers your query, thank you for taking the time to comment even though it was late at night your timezone.

@273kelvin I see you modified your previous reply, just so you know my previous reply was based on what you had mentioned before you edited it. I don't recall referring to you as a "liberal snowflake", and truth be told I'm rather liberal myself (in the classic sense), so you confused me with someone else there. As for the fear part goes, that's not as simplistic as you think it is, but at the moment I do not have the spare time to dedicate to getting deeper on that point.

@273kelvin I see you missed the point also. I seems you can't understand what 'liberty" means.

@Alienbeing Free to walk to the liqueur store at 3 am or not is pretty basic.

@Alienbeing, @SpikeTalon Okay "mass shootings" are defined as 4 or more people being shot. As of 4th August 2022, in the US there have been 472 this year, around 5 a day. I would not call that uncommon. Obviously, violent crime does not disappear altogether when guns aren't part of the picture. I could get mugged on the way to the liquor store, maybe stabbed but I'm unlikely to be stabbed by accident. Yes, there can be mass stabbings but not 5 a day.
My point was, that being shot for us is like medical bills. Something that is a non-issue

@273kelvin You like it where you live, fine. We like it here.

@273kelvin I am unaware of any liquor store that is open at 3AM.

@Alienbeing Us brits must drink a bit more than North Carolinians or maybe I just live in the city. We generally have one all-night store per neighbourhood.

@273kelvin I think all U.S. States have laws requiring liquor stores to close way before 3AM

@Alienbeing I just Googled it and 1am is the closing time. So much for the land of the free? You can be trusted with an AR 15 but not to buy a 6-pack of Bud or a bottle of JD after 1am. Even in the 24/7 city of LV or NY which never sleeps. I bet you could buy ammo somewhere though?

@273kelvin Trying to equate gun or ammo sales hours to liquor sales hours proves you have no clue why each is the case in the USA.

First your 1AM statement is true in some Stats, not all. Each State regulates liquor laws in its own manner.

Next to educate you, liquor sales hours (and even forbidding sales entirely on Sunday) are the result of what are called "Blue Laws" which were enacted because of intense lobby efforts at the State level by Puritanical religious organizations. Most have now been nullified, but many still remain. In fact all retail saleson Sunday were forbiddden in many States for decades.

Since no religious group ever lobbied gun sales hours no particular restrictions (that I am aware of) exist.

In closing, neither situation have anything to do with "Land of the Free" since any laws that did or still do exist were passed by Democratically elected State Legislatures.

If you feel the need to comment on another country's laws, it would be a good idea if you actually knew what they were, and why they exist.

@273kelvin Sorry for delay in getting back to you here, with what little spare time I've had recently to be active on this site it was mostly spent on debating one individual.

What source were you going by in determining how many mass shooting incidents so far in the US this year? There are special interest groups like the Gun Violence Archive and Everytown that have specific criteria they go by in labeling mass shootings, and then there's the US Government (FBI in particular) standard in identifying such criminal acts, and the criteria each of them use is different. While the Government does not have a formal definition on what would constitute a mass shooting, they do define a mass murder incident as being one of which at least four or more individuals were murdered in the same span of time, and by extension that same criteria would be applied to a shooting spree that saw that number of deaths. The other sources like Gun Violence Archive, which do not go by the Government standard and thus should not really be used due to potential biased reporting, identify a mass shooting as any incident in which four or more people were merely injured and not necessarily killed, and in some instances they have reported mass shootings in which only one or two people were just injured.

With those sources explained now aside for a moment, let's look at the actual statistics regarding these mass shooting incidents as defined by the Government (FBI) and not some special interest advocacy group. According to the site Statista, whom are a known centrist and least biased source of data (see their reliability rating here- [mediabiasfactcheck.com] rated high), as of July 17th there have been only eight mass shootings, and in the time since think there were three or so more, which is a far cry from the figure you supplied above. If you look at previous years, you'd see that 2018 was the worst year at twelve mass shooting incidents.- [statista.com]

Simply put, these mass shooting and even just school shooting incidents are not as common as some believe they are, and the chances here of getting struck and killed by a vehicle are far greater than getting struck and killed by a bullet. Again, the statistics settled on would depend on what source(s) you are going by, and for that sort of thing it's probably best to go with the Government definition of such. I understood your point fully, and all I'm saying for the most part here in the US that sort of thing isn't that big of a worry either regardless of what you may have heard otherwise, and where one lives of course would play a factor in potential danger level. I live in one of the biggest cities in Pennsylvania, and while living here can be a bit rough at times, I feel safe for the most part and don't walk around in a constant state of fear, but I do like to stay prepared for whatever may come my way.

@SpikeTalon I thought the definition was "four or more people injured or killed in one event" and as such I googled it and although I don`t think I found the actual site (it was a while back) here are the top 2 links that came up when I googled it again.
[nbcphiladelphia.com]

[gunviolencearchive.org]

As you can see, these are a little more detailed than a simple total. I can see that an average of 13 a week may seem incredible but it could be its frequency itself that leads to its underreporting.

@273kelvin Both of those sources are going by metrics that are not considered to be the official consensus because they are not going by how the Government defines mass murder, and the Government has no official definition as to what constitutes a mass shooting because it's heading into tricky territory, as some special interest groups could seek to distort any data given on the subject in order to advance their own personal agenda.

If the actual shootings themselves are what's concerning you here and not strictly based on a certain number of casualties, I could tell you with certainty that crimes involving shootings (guns) are not a unique or exclusive crime, as many other types of weapons are used in crimes every day across the US, but other weapons used in crimes for some reason doesn't seem to get the media attention that crimes involving guns do. There is more detail than a simple total indeed, because gun-related crime is hardly the only type of crime Americans need to be concerned about.

@SpikeTalon Okay what are quibbling about here? What constitutes a mass shooting? That 4 or more people shot too small a number? Does it have to be at least double figures or it doesn't count? Okay, I will tell you some figures that I don't have to Google. The number of mass shootings in the UK in the last 25 years...0

@273kelvin Why are you shifting topics by attempting to compare the UK with the US, knowing full well you can't reasonably compare the two as the latter has many more privately owned firearms per capita than the former does, and most of our large cities see far more various types of violent crimes than in the UK. That's not my opinion, and if you object to the minimum four casualty threshold for US mass murders/shootings then I suggest you take that up with the FBI, as I was only going by their definition of a mass murder. Also, who said anything about deaths needing to be in the double figures first for it to count as such? Believe the number I had mentioned was four, and that's nowhere close to a double digit, so not sure where you got that one from??

You said above and I quote- "Okay, I will tell you some figures that I don't have to Google. The number of mass shootings in the UK in the last 25 years...0". So certain of that are you? Me thinks you are incorrect about that...

I'll start with perhaps the worst UK mass shooting in recent times, which would be the Cumbria shootings. The Cumbria shootings was a shooting spree which occurred on 2 June 2010 when a lone gunman, taxi driver Derrick Bird, killed twelve people and injured eleven others in Cumbria, England, United Kingdom. Along with the 1987 Hungerford massacre and the 1996 Dunblane school massacre, it is one of the worst criminal acts involving firearms in British history. The shootings ended when Bird killed himself in a wooded area after abandoning his car in the village of Boot. Here is the source- [en.wikipedia.org].

Here are a few others. The Horden shooting was a mass shooting in Horden, England, on 1 January 2012, also called the New Year's Day shooting. 42-year-old Michael Atherton shot his partner Susan McGoldrick, her sister Alison Turnbull and her daughter Tanya Turnbull with a shotgun, before killing himself. Source- [en.m.wikipedia.org]

On Sunday, 12 August 2018, a mass shooting happened in the Manchester neighbourhood of Moss Side. It was the first mass shooting in the UK since the Cumbria shootings in 2010.[2][3] The weapon used was believed by Greater Manchester Police to be a shotgun. There were no fatalities. While thankfully there were no deaths from that, a dozen people were injured, and since you're splitting hairs with me above over the total number of both injuries and deaths that shooting should concern you all the same. Source- [en.m.wikipedia.org]

The following mass shooting occured a little over a year ago, my my what a short memory you have... The Plymouth shooting occurred in Keyham, Plymouth, Devon, England, United Kingdom, on 12 August 2021. The gunman, 22-year-old Jake Davison, shot and killed five people and injured two others before fatally shooting himself. Devon and Cornwall Police have not identified a motive. Six people dead and two injured, so much for your zero mass shooting statistic. Source- [en.m.wikipedia.org]

That's not even taking into consideration other random shootings in the UK that don't see as high of a number of injuries or deaths, but appear to be a steadily growing problem- [bbc.co.uk].

So I'm afraid your zero UK mass shooting stat was wrong, and if a mass shooting occured as recently as last year then one could surely occur again in the near future, and to think otherwise would be foolish. And don't give me some excuse either that you were half asleep, only respond to me when you're fully awake and maybe also after you've fully researched some of this stuff. I was honest with you, and if you cannot do the same in return then I shall be forced to ignore you, and now I understand why @Alienbeing went off on you as he did.

@SpikeTalon Sorry, I forgot bout the 2010 one (it was 12 years ago) and yes there was another in 2021. Hungerford and Dunblane happened over 25 years ago and led to an almost total ban on firearms with the exception of shotguns and some hunting rifles which are both strictly controlled. So my apologies You managed to find 4 in 25 years, which is 4 too many but a far cry from 13 a week.
The fact is that shootings are so rare here that on the sad occasions they do happen it is big news. Unfortunately, we had one in my own city last month. A child was killed and her mother injured. This was a banner headline for weeks. I doubt the same would make it above the fold in the US.

@273kelvin Again, you can't compare the UK with the US on that as the latter has many more privately owned firearms per capita, so crimes committed with such would surely be more expected than in a country where privately owned guns are more heavily regulated. Despite your laws, the mere fact it has happened (and could so again in the future) once is quite telling, as one would think the laws would be better able to protect the citizens than that. At least you acknowledged the sources I linked to that time, which is promising, so you get some internet points for that I suppose.

@SpikeTalon It is nice for you to admit that mass shootings just might have some correlation to the amount of gun ownership.